Searching for Meaning: The Point of Life

[Kentoro]

I have recently hit a place in my life where my curiosity has been refilled. I found these forums by looking for someone who might be able to tell me where similar philosophy to an idea of mine that is haunting me.

Look in the room around you right now. There are very few differences to rooms. In essence, there is you, maybe entertainment, and maybe some people to talk to. I have been to jail before. I had a T.V and some people to talk to. Prison is the same. When broken down to the core components, everything is the same. That makes me wonder what we are here on the Earth to do. This man's search for meaning. When contemplating too far into this issue it starts to depress me.
As far as entertainment goes, it is to me, a time killer for people waiting to die. So I wonder, maybe the point of my life is to be remembered? What was the name of the guy that invented the cure for polio? Most are glad they don't have polio, but to most, that man has been forgotten by time. What If I was to cure cancer today? In 200 years, there would be another disease ravishing humanity and since no one has had cancer for 200 years, no one would care to remember my name. Do you remember your great great great great grandpa's name? I don't believe being remembered is the idea of my life. So what is the point? The only thing that keeps me going is that If I don't worry about that one idea, I can excite myself with just about anything. Life to me, is meant to just live it. It is a happy and sad thought at the same time. The bible said "Eat, drink, and be Merry." Is that the idea? Have I been clouded my entire life believing in my own self importance?
Whenever I start to simplify everything...the importance of the object I am breaking down becomes larger in scope and less important. An example is: A video game called call of duty. Breaks down into Video games, then games, then competition, then entertainment, which leads me to my next point...entertainment really is something to amuse yourself with to pass time...inevitably time passes until you die. Call of duty is giving you something to do while waiting to die? I am looking for what exists beyond that. What is a worthy goal of mine? I know that my idea has been thought of before, I see hints of it in music, movies, books, people's quotes. I would just like to find a hard code example of it to read through and get someone else's perspective on it. The sad thing is, I go to college and I try to get people to think with me and maybe even friendly discussion/debate but finding people that care to think is hard to do. I have ran across 2 people that enjoy a good discussion. Maybe the way I approach philosophy is boring?

 

[collinsmark]

'Reminds me of Today's Abstruse Goose:

[PLAIN]http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/how_many_pop_culture_references_can_you_identify.PNG

From URL: http://abstrusegoose.com/317"

 

[Danger]

What was the name of the guy that invented the cure for polio? Most are glad they don't have polio, but to most, that man has been forgotten by time.

Believe it or not, I've never met anyone over the age of 10 who didn't know that it was Jonas Salk. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but here in Canada that's a basic part of our public school history classes.
There is no purpose to life; it's an accident. Strangely enough, a raving religious fanatic summed it up best (Johnny Hart in the BC comic strip):
One dim caveman went through a long spell of questioning our purpose, culminating in "Why are we here?"
The wise caveman replied, "Because the weeds need the carbon dioxide."

 

[Chi Meson]

Believe it or not, I've never met anyone over the age of 10 who didn't know that it was Jonas Salk. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but here in Canada that's a basic part of our public school history classes.
There is no purpose to life; it's an accident. Strangely enough, a raving religious fanatic summed it up best (Johnny Hart in the BC comic strip):
One dim caveman went through a long spell of questioning our purpose, culminating in "Why are we here?"
The wise caveman replied, "Because the weeds need the carbon dioxide."

That must have been before his rebirth. Johnny Hart used to make many scientifically astute observations. Then he switched to religiously obtuse ones.

 

[Danger]

That must have been before his rebirth. Johnny Hart used to make many scientifically astute observations. Then he switched to religiously obtuse ones.

Agreed.

 

[Kentoro]

'Reminds me of Today's Abstruse Goose:]

The reason for confidence. Once we are aware of not having a meaning, once we gain self awareness amidst our surroundings. We are able to be free. There is only one more obstacle I can think of and that is fear. When realizing that everything comes with some form of fear, I can decide if the object of my desire is of greater value than the fear. If I choose yes, I can sidestep the fear and continue to pursue my desire.

 

[Danger]

Cool observation, Kentoro.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Believe it or not, I've never met anyone over the age of 10 who didn't know that it was Jonas Salk.

You've may have met lots of people who didn't know that, unless you ask everyone you meet who invented the polio vaccine.
I don't think I've ever heard the name Jonas Salk before, so I definitely didn't know that.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I'm surprised, Leroy. I thought that was something everyone learned in grade school.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I'm surprised, Leroy. I thought that was something everyone learned in grade school.

Even if it was, do you remember everything you learned in grade school?

 

[Math Is Hard]

Even if it was, do you remember everything you learned in grade school?

No, of course not. But I do remember learning about Jonas Salk and the polio vaccine.

It may have had more impact on my memory because I knew someone (my piano teacher) who had been crippled by polio as a child.

 

[Danger]

MIH, perhaps Leroy is much younger than us. The vaccine became available to the general public only when I was a child. The first thing that my parents did was to get me a shot. I knew a few people who were severely crippled, and one of my favourite cousins had a bad club-foot, due to the disease.

 

[lisab]

For me, he's unforgettable because he used the vaccine on his own children before its safety was known. I get such mixed feelings about that...whew.

 

[gonpost]

As a 21 year old male in the US, I can guarantee you that very few people my age know who made the polio vaccine. I'd guess maybe 1 in 100. And they didn't learn it in school.

"Eat, drink, and be merry" is a fantastic idea for most people.

I had written up a lot more in this post, but then I deleted it. I don't really have an answer to your question, Kentoro...only musings.

 

[Upisoft]

I'm surprised, Leroy. I thought that was something everyone learned in grade school.

You live in Utopia. I live in ex-totalitarian country. I don't know about Salk and I'm sure it was not told to anyone at my age. We were told only bad things about imperialism. When I was a child I had nightmares with nuclear destruction of the city I live.

 

[lisab]

The reason for confidence. Once we are aware of not having a meaning, once we gain self awareness amidst our surroundings. We are able to be free. There is only one more obstacle I can think of and that is fear. When realizing that everything comes with some form of fear, I can decide if the object of my desire is of greater value than the fear. If I choose yes, I can sidestep the fear and continue to pursue my desire.

I had a similar experience, when I completely embraced atheism. It was like an awakening. It made me realize the importance of *now*. For me, wrapped up with the belief of an afterlife is an inherent acceptance of waiting.

Once you lose that, this life becomes so, so precious. Waiting is not a good way to spend a lot of time.

What helps with fear is just becoming very aware of your motivations. Fear can be an appropriate motivator: it's ok to let fear motivate you to run fast if you're being chased by a bear. But often it's not the right motivation, and it only holds you back. Want to talk to that guy/gal who you've had your eye on, but fear keeps you from doing it? That's not an appropriate use of fear; get your butt over there and start talking because you only live once .

 

[Danger]

When I was a child I had nightmares with nuclear destruction of the city I live.

I had the same basic fears, although not nightmares. What might seem strange is that my fear came from the Yanks, not the Soviet Bloc. It's one thing to live half a planet away from megolomaniacal warmongers; it's quite another to have them haunting your border.

 

[Upisoft]

I had the same basic fears, although not nightmares.

I'm still living few kilometers away from an airport. It is unbelievable what noise can make old Tu-134 or Tu-154 while landing or taking off. It actually resembles mini-earthquake. So the "explanation" of the sensation in my sleep was probably the thing I was most afraid.

 

[Danger]

So the "explanation" of the sensation in my sleep was probably the thing I was most afraid.

That is quite understandable, and represents what I think of as a "primal" fear, similar to that of serpents or falling. (I personally have no fear of snakes, but I'll run for miles to avoid an insect, and despite having been a pilot I've been terrified of heights for my entire life.) I'd put it down to "genetic memory" left over from our tree-dwelling ancestors. Your subconscious mind might interpret the rumbling as either an earthquake as you mentioned, or thunder. Either one would indicate immediate danger to even a modern human, let alone a primitive one. Fear, and hence avoidance, of those was a survival trait.

 

[Kentoro]

As a 21 year old male in the US, I can guarantee you that very few people my age know who made the polio vaccine. I'd guess maybe 1 in 100. And they didn't learn it in school.

"Eat, drink, and be merry" is a fantastic idea for most people.

I had written up a lot more in this post, but then I deleted it. I don't really have an answer to your question, Kentoro...only musings.

I appreciate musings. I am from Texas. It is increasingly hard to find people that will converse with me about things that can't be known. I approach many people, but their sense of self-importance is overwhelming. I am trying to get many people's views on matters that I take to heart and even more fun to me is getting someone to talk about things they don't know about. Fears of theirs, not to fix them, but to discuss issues that may or may not make their quality of life better. In talking with people over their issues, I get to strengthen my own points, or take in different perspectives on issues that I had considered closed. When I get a paradigm shift, It excites me.
I have trouble accepting that not everyone has a thirst for knowlege. Some are content to live out their lives working, raising a family, and sleeping. Rinse, wash, repeat. I lived that life for awhile and decided it was not for me. Time for something new. To stop growing is to start dying and I don't like the feeling I get when everything is going smoothly. Time to rustle some feathers. If I don't absorb myself into something, I have too much time on my hands to get stuck in thought land. I don't particularly like being stuck with my thoughts with no way to outlet them.
I do a bit of writing, but it doesn't always satisfy my need to improve upon my thoughts. I get stuck without someone to help me analyze and give me fresh ideas. I hope these forums will give me a fresh outlook. Thanks for the posts people.

 

[Kentoro]

By the way, I was reading Plato's dialogues and got a bit of an answer to my original post. Not really an answer but at least an idea that someone else has thought of it before me and wrote something about it. In the part about Crito, Socrates talks about suicide. He mentions that the Earth is a prison run by the Gods and that it would be wrong to leave the prison before they called upon you. Interesting stuff.

 

[Pianoman14]

I hope this post won't guarantee my entry into the banned of brothers...

Keep in mind that atheism and agnosticism are not freedom from religion. They are religions in and of themselves. One often hears atheists talking about being 'freed' but they have just transferred their allegiance.

As for LisaB's question statement about the futility of waiting for an afterlife, I have an answer for that, but it is long and technical--if someone wants me to post it I will.

Two books the OP might be interested in are C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity and The Great Divorce. I know that Lewis is a Christian, and thus is likely to be written off as a quack by the great majority of the folks on this forum, but his arguments are very solid and thought provoking--even from an an atheistic standpoint.

 

[Chi Meson]

Keep in mind that atheism and agnosticism are not freedom from religion. They are religions in and of themselves. One often hears atheists talking about being 'freed' but they have just transferred their allegiance.

That is just not true. It may be that some people do take atheism to a ridiculous point such as to become dogmatic about it. It is rather presumptuous to claim to know what a whole set of people believe (or disbelieve), and it is not a trustworthy source to go to one group of people in order to define the worldview of another group.

By your speculation, it is assumed that no person can live without a religion. I disagree with that.

And regarding CS Lewis: a great writer and thinker, no doubt. But solid, thought- provoking arguments are not sole criteria for "correctness." There are dozens to several hundred prominent philosophers representing every possible point of view with "solid, thought-provoking arguments."

At some point you realize that truth, reality, correctness, etc cannot be argued to a final agreement in matters of ethics and opinions.

 

[Kentoro]

If the post is long does not matter. As long as it is your original thoughts. I live my life by the motto "Better to apologize than to ask persmission." Strictly on the idea that those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

 

[Pianoman14]

At some point you realize that truth, reality, correctness, etc cannot be argued to a final agreement in matters of ethics and opinions.

I agree--the existence of truth can be argued, but when the smoke clears, ultimate standards are a matter of faith. There is no way to *prove* that there is no God or that there is a God. The question is, "What is the most reasonable faith?"

About the statement that no one can exist without a religion:
Merriam Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary defines religion as, "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith". Everyone I have interacted with holds to their beliefs fairly strongly, so, according to the definition above, that counts as a religion (I realize this is a little personal and the definition of religion can vary depending on who you ask.) One might make an exception for people like the OP, who are searching for a purpose in life but aren't sure if there is one.

 

[lisab]

If the post is long does not matter. As long as it is your original thoughts. I live my life by the motto "Better to apologize than to ask persmission." Strictly on the idea that those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

An excellent plan .

 

[Chi Meson]

Everyone I have interacted with holds to their beliefs fairly strongly, so, according to the definition above, that counts as a religion .

If that is your definition, so be it. Having a strong opinion is a religion then. I will continue to disagree.

 

[FlexGunship]

That makes me wonder what we are here on the Earth to do.

Be careful when you presume the existence of purpose. What is the purpose of butterflies? We get the same instruction manual for life that gnats and pine trees do. If you can't find a way to enjoy your life and make a meaningful existence for yourself, then you can come paint my shed.

 

[Pianoman14]

If that is your definition, so be it. Having a strong opinion is a religion then. I will continue to disagree.

I understand your point now...

For the sake of argument then, who defines religion? Who defines your concept of religion? Is there an authoritative source, if a dictionary is not?

 

[Maui]

We are being hunted and the point is survival. Survival of the fittest. Death is around the corner 24/7 for each and everyone. I am still alive, that's a LOT.

 

[Evo]

I agree--the existence of truth can be argued, but when the smoke clears, ultimate standards are a matter of faith. There is no way to *prove* that there is no God or that there is a God. The question is, "What is the most reasonable faith?"

The real question is why do some people need faith and other's don't?

Aetheists lack faith, they simply do not believe in the imaginary things others believe in. This has been discussed before. Not going to be discussed again.

About the statement that no one can exist without a religion:
Merriam Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary defines religion as, "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith". Everyone I have interacted with holds to their beliefs fairly strongly, so, according to the definition above, that counts as a religion

Religion counts as a religion? Ok, I'll buy that. Your statement

no one can exist without a religion

Is wrong, as Chi mentioned.

We already had the discussions from people that don't understand what atheism is, and we're not doing it again. Thanks.

 

[Evo]

An excellent plan .

Except in cases where police will become involved or breaking forum guidelines, cheating on school tests, ticking off that big guy with the gun in the back of the bar...

 

[rolerbe]

Possibly worthwhile for your musings Kentoro, would be a book of essays by Feynman called https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465023959/?tag=pfamazon01-20.

 

[Pianoman14]

]
We already had the discussions from people that don't understand what atheism is, and we're not doing it again. Thanks.

Are you writing as a moderator or as a poster that doesn't want to discuss this? (I don't want to break the rules, but the intent of your post is a little unclear to me here)

 

[Evo]

Are you writing as a moderator or as a poster that doesn't want to discuss this? (I don't want to break the rules, but the intent of your post is a little unclear to me here)

As a moderator who has to close all of the threads that claim to know things about people they don't know.

When joining in as a member, I would not give instructions, I would simply participate in the discussion.

 

[Pianoman14]

As a moderator who has to close all of the threads that claim to know things about people they don't know.

When joining in as a member, I would not give instructions, I would simply participate in the discussion.

Point taken. I won't discuss Christianity or intelligent design any more.

 

[Evo]

Point taken. I promise not to discuss creationism or intelligent design any more.

Thanks, as those two areas of religion violate our religious discussion guidelines.

 

[Kentoro]

Except in cases where police will become involved or breaking forum guidelines, cheating on school tests, ticking off that big guy with the gun in the back of the bar...

If I believe that I am right in doing something that to me needs to be done, I stick with my first belief. I can apologize later, I am not going to be railroaded into doing something because of fear of reprimand or imprisonment. I broke the forum rules my first post because I failed to read them thoroughly and I am new to internet guidlines, I am pretty sure there is an ettiquite I will figure out. I broke the rule, I was told it was against the rule. I apologize, meaning that what I did will not happen again from me. I never cheat because I don't believe getting a grade without putting in the effort to learn the material is a waste of my time and I value mine. Ticking off the big guy with the gun in the back of the bar...well what am I doing in that type of place.. I knew the type of person I was hanging around in the first place, when he's about to pull the trigger...Responsibility can never be shucked..I actually think its fun when I get punched in the face for doing something I thought was right. Beats getting punched in the face for leaving my life to random chance and getting random results.

 

[Kentoro]

mentor, not trying to be difficult, but you quoted someone who said christianity when he said creationism...if he said the wrong word, its still his wrong word. If he said it to mean something differently entirely, please make sure his point is not lost. Just a slippery slope if I was asked.

 

[Evo]

mentor, not trying to be difficult, but you quoted someone who said christianity when he said creationism...if he said the wrong word, its still his wrong word. If he said it to mean something differently entirely, please make sure his point is not lost. Just a slippery slope if I was asked.

I don't undersatnd any of what you said.

I used the autoquote, so it captured what he originally posted.

 

[lisab]

mentor, not trying to be difficult, but you quoted someone who said christianity when he said creationism...if he said the wrong word, its still his wrong word. If he said it to mean something differently entirely, please make sure his point is not lost. Just a slippery slope if I was asked.

If you edit a post in the first few minutes after you create it, the edit isn't noted. So I believe what happened was Pianoman14 edited his post immediately after posting it, but Evo quoted it before the edited version came up.

 

[Evo]

If I believe that I am right in doing something that to me needs to be done, I stick with my first belief. I can apologize later, I am not going to be railroaded into doing something because of fear of reprimand or imprisonment.

I don't doubt that you get punched in the face a lot if you act irresponsibly. Part of becomming mature and acting as a responsible part of society is finding out what is aceptable and abiding by the rules that society has chosen. Doing whatever you feel like doing at the moment then saying you're sorry is antisocial behavior at best, illegal and/or dangerous at worse.

 

[Pianoman14]

If you edit a post in the first few minutes after you create it, the edit isn't noted. So I believe what happened was Pianoman14 edited his post immediately after posting it, but Evo quoted it before the edited version came up.

That's exactly what happened--I realized I used the wrong word. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

 

[petm1]

When ever I see this question come up I always think of Harry Nilsson's movie "The point".

 

[Danger]

ticking off that big guy with the gun in the back of the bar...

I used to like that. I was always the smaller guy, but I always had a bigger gun.

 

[JDStupi]

"It happens that the stage sets collapse. Rising, street-car, four hours in the office or the factory, meal, street-car, four hours of work, meal, sleep, and Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and Saturday according to the same rhythm—this path is easily followed most of the time. But one day the "why" arises and everything begins in that weariness tinged with amazement. "Begins"—this is important. Weariness comes at the end of the acts of a mechanical life, but at the same time it inaugurates the impulse of consciousness. It awakens consciousness and provokes what follows. What follows is the gradual return into the chain or it is the definitive awakening"

Congratulations! Welcome to The Absurd! Now you can go kill yourself, create a system to provide meaning for your life, or you can enter a state of revolt. And of course you can always "return to the chain"

In the meantime you may want to check out

"The Myth of Sisyphus"-Albert Camus (Which is where the quote above came from)
"The Stranger"- Albert Camus
Kierkegaard
Nietzche
Gabriel Marcel

 

[Kentoro]

I don't doubt that you get punched in the face a lot if you act irresponsibly. Part of becomming mature and acting as a responsible part of society is finding out what is aceptable and abiding by the rules that society has chosen. Doing whatever you feel like doing at the moment then saying you're sorry is antisocial behavior at best, illegal and/or dangerous at worse.

Sometimes what is needed by man or even society, goes against the rules society has set. Not to mention that society can be manipulated against people in certain cases. (Socrates' death) I try to live my life up to the standards of the wise, not the many. There are some rules that stand in the way of change that needs to take place. Sometimes mankinds responsiblity is to accept the consequences of an action regardless if he knows it is against laws already set in place. If I made it against the law to feed the homeless, there are those that might concede to me believing me to be righteous. There will always be men who decide to fight. I know my example was a gross exaggeration, but each day there are more laws set into place that if one were to examine, might see a pattern emerging.

 

[Danger]

In the meantime you may want to check out

"The Myth of Sisyphus"-Albert Camus (Which is where the quote above came from)

I've had enough problems with Sisyphus in my life without having to read about it.

Oh, wait... isn't that supposed to be spelled differently?

 

[ahitztafloor]

i live in the desert with few distractions so i have enough patients to wait and see our purpose in life if we have one.

 

[luitzen]

Why should there be a meaning to life? I think it's enough to give your life meaning.

And @Kentoro: doing what you want to do and then apologising afterwards makes you a *editied comment* and I really wonder why you've been in jail. I think the mature approach is to find out what is acceptable and what might hurt other people before doing whatever you want to do.