Second Order Differential Equation (homogenous)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a second-order homogeneous differential equation, specifically (2x-1)y''-4xy'+4y=0, with a known solution y_1(x)=x. The original poster seeks to find y(2) given the initial conditions (y(1),y'(1))=(0, 0) and mentions using the method of reduction of order.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the reduction of order method and the resulting integrals, expressing confusion about the implications of initial conditions leading to a degenerate solution. There are questions about how to handle the situation when initial conditions cause certain terms to fall to zero.

Discussion Status

Several participants explore different interpretations of the initial conditions and their effects on the solution. Some suggest that the initial conditions imply that y will always be zero, while others question the validity of this conclusion. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity of the integrals involved, and some participants indicate that the problem might be solvable analytically, despite initial doubts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the textbook does not address degenerate solutions, leading to uncertainty about how to proceed when faced with such conditions. There is also mention of changing initial conditions to explore different scenarios, which adds to the complexity of the discussion.

sandy.bridge
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Homework Statement


Given [itex]y_1(x)=x[/itex] is a solution to [itex](2x-1)y''-4xy'+4y=0[/itex], find [itex]y(2)[/itex] given [itex](y(1),y'(1))=(0, 0)[/itex]. Utilize method of reduction of order.

I need help with this as I end up getting some ugly (in my mind, anyways) integrals. Thanks in advance!

The Attempt at a Solution



Let [itex]y=y_1v=xv[/itex], hence [itex]y'=v'x+v[/itex], and [itex]y''=2v'+v''x[/itex].

[tex]4xv'-2v'+2x^2v''-xv''-4xv-4x^2v'+4xv=0[/tex]
[tex]4xv'-2v'+2x^2v''-xv''-4x^2v'=0[/tex]
Let [itex]w=v'[/itex]
After separating I get:
[tex]\frac{dw}{w}=\frac{4x^2-4x+2}{2x^2-x}dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{4x^2-4x+2}{2x^2-x}=2+\frac{A}{x}+\frac{B}{2x-1}[/tex]
where [itex]A(2x-1)+Bx=-2x+2[/itex], hence [itex](A, B)=(-2, 2)[/itex]
Therefore,
[tex]\frac{dw}{w}=(2-2\frac{1}{x}+2\frac{1}{2x-1})dx[/tex]
[tex]ln|w|=2x-2ln|x|+2ln|2x-1|+C_1[/tex]
[tex]w=\frac{e^{2x+C_1}(4x^2-4x+1)}{x^2}[/tex]
Next, I know I am supposed to integrate this to determine y', however, I am unsure of how to go about doing this.
 
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You should be able to determine C1 at this stage from the initial conditions. The answer is rather interesting, but I'm not sure what the implications are.
 
Well, [itex]w=v'=\frac{y'-v}{x}=\frac{y'-y/y_1}{x}[/itex], however, the initial values causes this to fall to zero, so I am a little confused.
 
sandy.bridge said:
Well, [itex]w=v'=\frac{y'-v}{x}=\frac{y'-y/y_1}{x}[/itex], however, the initial values causes this to fall to zero, so I am a little confused.
Exactly. A degenerate solution, perhaps?
 
My apologies. This is the first time I have seen this, and my textbook does not seem to mention anything regarding degenerate solutions. What exactly does this imply? Does that mean I assume [itex]v'=0[/itex] and start again?
 
It implies to me that with these initial conditions y will be always 0. That's certainly a solution.
 
Okay, let's say that y(1)=1 instead.
That results in [itex]-1=e^{2x+C_1}[/itex] which is impossible, however, the example that I am looking at states that if y(1)=1 there is a solution. What sort of trick does one do after getting to this point, though? If it were zero I can see how that would indicate that v was a constant since v'=0. However, being that it is equal to -1 with y(1)=1, y'(1)=0, I don't quite see what that implies.
 
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sandy.bridge said:
Okay, let's say that y(1)=1 instead.
That results in [itex]-1=e^{2x+C_1}[/itex]
No, you correctly had ln|w| on the LHS, not ln(w).
 
Ah yes, don't know how that got away from me. Which brings me to [itex]C_1=-2[/itex]. I still have to do a nasty integral to determine [itex]v[/itex] do I not?
 
  • #10
I believe that integral can be reduced/equated to integrating a double exponential. There's nothing special about the range, so it cannot be done analytically.
But how come you changed the b.c. from y(1)=0 to y(1)=1? Which is actually wanted?
 
  • #11
There was both that I wanted to go over. Thanks for your help! Now that I know I cannot analytically solve that, I am done.
 
  • #12
I have been notified that there is an error as this problem is indeed doable analytically. Here is my adjusted work, however, still seems rather tricky to solve:
Let [itex]y=y_1v=xv[/itex], hence [itex]y'=v'x+v[/itex], and [itex]y''=2v'+v''x[/itex].

[tex]4xv'-2v'+2x^2v''-xv''-4xv-4x^2v'+4xv=0[/tex]
[tex]4xv'-2v'+2x^2v''-xv''-4x^2v'=0[/tex]
Let [itex]w=v'[/itex]
After separating I get:
[tex]\frac{dw}{w}=\frac{4x^2-4x+2}{2x^2-x}dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{4x^2-4x+2}{2x^2-x}=2+\frac{A}{x}+\frac{B}{2x-1}[/tex]
where [itex]A(2x-1)+Bx=-2x+2[/itex], hence [itex](A, B)=(-2, 2)[/itex]
Therefore,
[tex]\frac{dw}{w}=(2-2\frac{1}{x}+2\frac{1}{2x-1})dx[/tex]
[tex]ln|w|+c_1=2x-2ln|x|+ln|2x-1|[/tex]
From here we can utilize [itex]y'=v'x+v[/itex], since [itex]w=v'[/itex] we have [itex]y'(1)=w(1)(1)+1[/itex] and [itex]w(1)=-1[/itex].

[tex]ln|-1|+c_1=2,c_1=2[/tex]
Therefore,
[tex]v=\int\frac{e^{2x-2}(2x-1)}{x^2}dx[/tex]

From here you can get the right answer by factoring out e^(-2) and applying integration by parts.
 
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  • #13
sandy.bridge said:
[tex]v=\int\frac{e^{2x-2}(2x-1)}{x^2}dx[/tex]

From here you can get the right answer by factoring out e^(-2) and applying integration by parts.
I got that far before, but it didn't seem like integration by parts would help. What I didn't consider was whether the nasty parts might cancel, so here goes:
##\int_1^2\frac{e^{2x}(2x-1)}{x^2}dx = 2\int_1^2\frac{e^{2x}}{x}dx - \int_1^2\frac{e^{2x}}{x^2}dx = 2\int_1^2\frac{e^{2x}}{x}dx + [\frac{e^{2x}}{x}]_1^2 - 2 \int_1^2\frac{e^{2x}}{x}dx##
Bingo.
 
  • #14
[tex]e^{-2}[2\int\frac{e^{2x}}{x}dx-\int\frac{e^{2x}}{x^2}dx]=e^{-2}[2\int\frac{e^{2x}}{x}dx-\frac{e^{2x}}{x}-2\int\frac{e^2x}{x}dx]=-\frac{e^{2x-2}}{x}+c_2[/tex]
I used [itex]U=e^{2x}, dU=2e^{2x}dx, dV=1/x^2dx, V=-1/x[/itex]

From here I determined [itex]c_2=2,[/itex], and [itex]y(2)=-3.38906[/itex] which was the solution.
 

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