Selection rule for electric dipole transitions in x direction

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of a matrix element related to electric dipole transitions, specifically focusing on the integral involving the variable x in spherical coordinates. The original poster presents a detailed mathematical expression and seeks clarification on the conditions under which the integral yields non-zero results.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to evaluate an integral involving exponential and trigonometric functions, questioning the correctness of their approach and the implications of the results for different values of m and m'.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the mathematical details, with some providing corrections and clarifications regarding the integration process. There is an exploration of the implications of the results based on the values of m and m', particularly focusing on the conditions for non-zero outcomes.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential issue of division by zero when m equals m' ± 1, prompting further discussion on how to handle these cases in the context of the integral evaluation.

maximus123
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Hello,
I have this matrix element

[itex]\langle n', l', m'| x |n, l, m \rangle[/itex]

where [itex]x=rsin\theta cos\phi[/itex] in spherical polars

Which I write explicitly as:

[itex]=\int \int \int R_{n', l'} R_{n, l} A_{l', m'} A_{l, m} P^{m'}_{l'} P^{m}_{l} e^{im\phi} e^{-im\phi} rsin\theta cos\phi r^{2} sin \theta d \theta d \phi dr[/itex][itex]=A_{l', m'} A_{l, m} \int dr R_{n', l'} r^{3} R_{n, l} \bullet \int d \theta sin^{2} \theta P^{m'}_{l'} P^{m}_{l} \bullet \int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{i\phi(m-m')} cos \phi d \phi[/itex]

The question just wants me to do the integral for the [itex]d \phi[/itex] bit then show that it is only non zero for [itex]m=m' \pm 1[/itex] hence [itex](m-m')= \pm 1[/itex]

So I let [itex]i(m-m')=a[/itex]

[itex]I=\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{a\phi} cos \phi[/itex]

[itex]u=e^{a\phi}[/itex]
[itex]du=a e^{a\phi}[/itex]
[itex]dv=cos \phi[/itex]
[itex]v=sin \phi[/itex]

[itex]I=sin \phi e^{a\phi}-a \int^{2\pi}_{0} sin \phi e^{a\phi}[/itex]

for the integral here I do the same again

[itex]u=e^{a\phi}[/itex]
[itex]du=a e^{a\phi}[/itex]
[itex]dv=sin \phi[/itex]
[itex]v=-cos \phi[/itex]

[itex]I_{2}=-cos \phi e^{a\phi} +a \int^{2\pi}_{0} cos \phi e^{a\phi}[/itex]

So in total

[itex]\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{a\phi} cos \phi=sin \phi e^{a\phi}+acos \phi e^{a\phi}-a^{2}\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{a\phi} cos\phi[/itex]

Then I take the integral on the RHS over to the left, factor out the integral and divide through by [itex]1+a^{2}[/itex] giving:

[itex]\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{a\phi}cos \phi=\frac{sin\phi e^{a\phi}+acos\phi e^{a\phi}}{1+a^{2}}[/itex]

[itex]= [\frac{sin\phi e^{i(m-m')\phi}+i(m-m')cos\phi e^{i(m-m')\phi}}{1-(m-m')^{2}}]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]
Is this integration ok? I kind of made it up as I went along as I wasn't sure how to integrate this function.
Assuming it is could someone explain to me how it follows that it is only non zero if [itex]m=m' \pm 1[/itex]
 
Last edited:
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maximus123 said:
[itex]\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{a\phi}cos \phi=\frac{sin\phi e^{a\phi}+acos\phi e^{a\phi}}{1+a^{2}}[/itex]

[itex]= [\frac{sin\phi e^{i(m-m')\phi}+acos\phi e^{i(m-m')\phi}}{1+(m-m')^{2}}]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]

Is this integration ok?

OK, except when you substituted for ##a## in the denominator in the last step.
 
Thanks, I've fixed that in the original post
 
So, what do you get when m ≠ m' ±1 and what do you get when m = m' ±1?
 
I'm having trouble getting passed the fact that for [itex]m=m'\pm 1[/itex] the denominator will be zero
e.g for [itex]m=m'+1[/itex]

[itex]= [\frac{sin\phi e^{i\phi}+icos\phi e^{i\phi}}{1-1}]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]
 
maximus123 said:
I'm having trouble getting passed the fact that for [itex]m=m'\pm 1[/itex] the denominator will be zero

Right. For this case you will need to go back and substitute [itex]m=m'\pm 1[/itex] before evaluating the integral.
 
OK, I think I get this now, so for example for [itex](m-m')=+1[/itex]

[itex]\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{i(m-m')\phi}cos\phi=\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{i \phi}cos\phi[/itex]

[itex]=\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{i \phi} \frac{e^{i\phi}+e^{-i\phi}}{2}[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{2i\phi}+1[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}[\frac{e^{2i\phi}}{2i}+\phi]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}[\frac{cos(2\phi)+isin(2\phi)}{2i}+\phi]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}[\frac{1}{2i}+2\pi-\frac{1}{2i}-0][/itex]

[itex]=\pi[/itex]

Similarly for the case when [itex](m-m')=-1[/itex]

[itex]\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{i(m-m')\phi}cos\phi=\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{-i \phi}cos\phi[/itex]

[itex]=\int^{2\pi}_{0} e^{-i \phi} \frac{e^{i\phi}+e^{-i\phi}}{2}[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{-2i\phi}+1[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}[-\frac{e^{-2i\phi}}{2i}+\phi]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}[\phi -\frac{cos(2\phi)-isin(2\phi)}{2i}]^{2\pi}_{0}[/itex]

[itex]=\frac{1}{2}[2\pi-\frac{1}{2i}+\frac{1}{2i}][/itex]

[itex]=\pi[/itex]

When [itex]m=m'\pm 1[/itex] one of the exponential terms multiplies with another to make 1. This means after integration there is a non trigonometric term which will become zero when zero is substituted into it. However when [itex]m\neq m'\pm 1[/itex] both terms have an exponential in after the integral is evaluated so the two terms you get after subbing in the [itex]2\pi[/itex] will equal the two terms you get after subbing in the zero. Does that sound right? Thanks for the help.
 
Sounds good.
 

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