Separating angular and linear momentum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the separation of angular and linear momentum in systems such as an inverted pendulum and a rod subjected to various forces. Participants explore the mechanics of these systems, particularly in relation to running techniques and the effects of gravity on motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether angular and linear momentum can be treated separately in the context of an inverted pendulum.
  • One participant proposes that the horizontal component of linear momentum remains unchanged just before the rod leaves the platform, raising questions about the relevance of angular momentum in calculating linear acceleration.
  • Another participant describes a scenario with a rod in space subjected to forces, suggesting that the forces create torque and angular acceleration around the center of mass.
  • There is a discussion about the ground reaction force (GRF) acting on the rod, with some participants asserting that it does not necessarily equal the weight of the rod when it is leaning.
  • Participants explore how to calculate the linear acceleration of the rod based on the forces acting on it, particularly when considering the effects of gravity and friction.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to calculate the magnitude and direction of the GRF when the rod is leaning and friction prevents slipping.
  • There is a consideration of how gravity might contribute to propulsion in running, particularly when the runner is leaning forward, and whether this effect is independent of the horizontal GRF.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between angular and linear momentum, the behavior of the GRF, and the implications for running mechanics. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their assumptions regarding the forces acting on the rod and the conditions under which the GRF operates. There are unresolved questions about the calculations needed to fully understand the dynamics of the systems discussed.

  • #31
Do I need to add more of my working to make it clearer to follow?
 
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  • #32
simbil said:
Finally got around to this again and I have worked out what may be a solution.

So, following your advice to find the velocity of the centre of mass as a function of angle:

We know that the energy E is constant such that the gravitic potential and kinetic are constant so E = mgh - 0.5mv^2

Before the rod falls, v is zero and h of COM = 1m, unit mass, so,

E = g

Therefore, g = mgh - 0.5mv^2
g = gh - 0.5v^2

Height can be expressed as a function of angle as h = rcosθ = cosθ, so,

g = gcosθ - 0.5v^2

and so the velocity as a function of angle is,

v^2 = 2g - 2gcosθ

If I am correct so far, the next step is to calculate the radial acceleration = v^2/r = v^2, so,

radial a = 2g - 2gcosθ

Tangential acceleration has already been calculated for the example as 0.75gsinθ
Looks good.

Total acceleration horizontally = tangential.cosθ - radial.cosθ
Almost. The horizontal component of the radial acceleration would be -radial.sinθ.


a = 0.75gsinθcosθ - cosθ(2g - 2gcosθ)

Unit mass so applying F= ma, horizontal force = 0.75gsinθcosθ - cosθ(2g - 2gcosθ)

Putting numbers into there gives results in line with what I would expect - is it right..?
Correct the above and you've got it.

simbil said:
Do I need to add more of my working to make it clearer to follow?
Nope. Just took me a while to get around to it. :smile:
 
  • #33
Thanks Doc Al, appreciate your guidance.



horizontal force = 0.75gsinθcosθ - sinθ(2g - 2gcosθ)
 

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