Set closed in Y, but not in superset of Y, X?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of closed sets in topology, specifically examining a set A that is closed in a subset Y but not in its superset X. The original poster seeks examples and clarification on the definitions and implications of closed and open sets within different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to find a suitable example of sets X and Y, often using the real numbers, and questions the conditions under which a set can be closed in Y but not in X. They reference the set A = [0,1] ∩ Q and express confusion regarding its closure properties. Other participants suggest considering cases where A ∩ Y = Y, leading to discussions about the implications of complements being open or closed.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring various interpretations of the definitions of closed and open sets. Some guidance has been offered regarding the implications of a null set complement, but there is no explicit consensus on the examples or the reasoning behind the closure properties of the sets discussed.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing exploration of the definitions of closed and open sets, particularly in relation to subsets and their complements. The original poster has expressed difficulty in finding appropriate examples that satisfy the conditions of the problem.

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Homework Statement


Let Y be a subset of X. Give an example where a set A is closed in Y but not closed in X.

Homework Equations


A set is closed if its complement is open.
A set is open if for every element x0 of the set, there exists an E > 0 such that U(x0;E) = {x|d(x,x0)< E} is contained in the set.


The Attempt at a Solution


I tried various combinations of X and Y, usually leaving X as the real numbers. I started with X as the reals, and Y as some open or closed interval in the reals, but had no luck. I know that a closed set in the reals (here, X) is a set that contains its boundaries, so I am looking for a set that is missing at least one of its boundary points (and is thus non-closed in X) but is closed in Y. However, I can't seem to find a proper Y such that such a set is closed in Y. While reading through some texts online, I came across the claim that the set A = [0,1] ∩ Q of rational numbers between 0 and 1 (inclusive) is closed in the space of rational numbers, but is not closed in the real numbers. However, I can't see why this is true. The complement of A in Y is (0,1) ∩ {irrationals}, but if we choose a point y from this set, it doesn't seem like there is an E > 0 such that every point within a distance E from y is irrational.

As for A = [0,1] ∩ Q being non-closed in X, its complement there is (-∞,0)U((0,1)∩Q)U(1,∞). (0,1)∩Q is not open in the X, so neither is its union with the open intervals shown.

I just don't understand why it is closed in Y.
 
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how about considering when A \cap Y = Y

clearly A is closed in Y, though you should be able to come up with a case when it i not closed in X...
 
If A ∩ Y = Y, the complement of A in Y is the null set, which is simultaneously open and closed, I believe. This tripped me up, but I guess that all that matters is that the complement is open for the set to be closed, correct? If that's true, then A and Y could both be the same open interval/region in R or RxR, right?
 
Vespero said:
If A ∩ Y = Y, the complement of A in Y is the null set, which is simultaneously open and closed, I believe. This tripped me up, but I guess that all that matters is that the complement is open for the set to be closed, correct? If that's true, then A and Y could both be the same open interval/region in R or RxR, right?

Yes, (0,1) is open in the real numbers. (0,1) is closed considered as a subset of (0,1).
 

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