Set closed in Y, but not in superset of Y, X?

In summary, the conversation discusses finding an example of a set that is closed in a subset Y of a space X, but not closed in X itself. The attempt at a solution explores various combinations of X and Y, and the concept of a set being closed if its complement is open. The conversation mentions the set A = [0,1] ∩ Q as a possible example, but raises questions about its closure in both Y and X. Ultimately, it is concluded that A = [0,1] ∩ Q is closed in Y and not closed in X, and that this can be seen by considering that the complement of A in Y is the null set, which is simultaneously open and closed.
  • #1
Vespero
28
0

Homework Statement


Let Y be a subset of X. Give an example where a set A is closed in Y but not closed in X.

Homework Equations


A set is closed if its complement is open.
A set is open if for every element x0 of the set, there exists an E > 0 such that U(x0;E) = {x|d(x,x0)< E} is contained in the set.


The Attempt at a Solution


I tried various combinations of X and Y, usually leaving X as the real numbers. I started with X as the reals, and Y as some open or closed interval in the reals, but had no luck. I know that a closed set in the reals (here, X) is a set that contains its boundaries, so I am looking for a set that is missing at least one of its boundary points (and is thus non-closed in X) but is closed in Y. However, I can't seem to find a proper Y such that such a set is closed in Y. While reading through some texts online, I came across the claim that the set A = [0,1] ∩ Q of rational numbers between 0 and 1 (inclusive) is closed in the space of rational numbers, but is not closed in the real numbers. However, I can't see why this is true. The complement of A in Y is (0,1) ∩ {irrationals}, but if we choose a point y from this set, it doesn't seem like there is an E > 0 such that every point within a distance E from y is irrational.

As for A = [0,1] ∩ Q being non-closed in X, its complement there is (-∞,0)U((0,1)∩Q)U(1,∞). (0,1)∩Q is not open in the X, so neither is its union with the open intervals shown.

I just don't understand why it is closed in Y.
 
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  • #2
how about considering when [itex] A \cap Y = Y [/itex]

clearly A is closed in Y, though you should be able to come up with a case when it i not closed in X...
 
  • #3
If A ∩ Y = Y, the complement of A in Y is the null set, which is simultaneously open and closed, I believe. This tripped me up, but I guess that all that matters is that the complement is open for the set to be closed, correct? If that's true, then A and Y could both be the same open interval/region in R or RxR, right?
 
  • #4
Vespero said:
If A ∩ Y = Y, the complement of A in Y is the null set, which is simultaneously open and closed, I believe. This tripped me up, but I guess that all that matters is that the complement is open for the set to be closed, correct? If that's true, then A and Y could both be the same open interval/region in R or RxR, right?

Yes, (0,1) is open in the real numbers. (0,1) is closed considered as a subset of (0,1).
 

1. What does it mean for a set to be closed in Y?

A set is considered to be closed in Y if it contains all of its limit points. In other words, if every sequence in the set converges to a point within the set, then the set is closed in Y.

2. Can a set be closed in Y but not in its superset of Y?

Yes, it is possible for a set to be closed in Y but not in its superset of Y. This means that the set contains all of its limit points, but the superset may contain additional limit points that are not in the set.

3. How is the closure of a set related to being closed in Y?

The closure of a set is the smallest closed set that contains the original set. Therefore, if a set is closed in Y, its closure will be the same as the original set. However, if a set is not closed in Y, its closure will be the smallest closed set that contains it, which may be different from the original set.

4. Is it possible for a set to be closed in Y but not in its superset of Y if the superset is also closed?

Yes, it is possible for a set to be closed in Y but not in its superset of Y even if the superset is closed. This can occur if the set contains all of its limit points, but the superset contains additional limit points that are not in the set.

5. How does the concept of closed sets relate to topology?

Closed sets are an important concept in topology, as they help define the structure of a topological space. In topology, a set is considered closed if its complement (the set of all points not in the set) is open. This definition allows for the study of continuity and convergence in topological spaces.

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