Should I Be Mad? Reasons Why & What To Do

[Werg22]

First, I would hate to appear like someone who blames others for his blunders. But this time around I think I have some pretty convincing reasons to be mad at other things than myself.

I'm taking a CS class in which I am certain I understand the entire material up to now. But two unfortunate events made me hate that class to death. First, there was an assignment that was due at a certain time. The submission had to be done electronically, through my student account. Unfortunately, my internet connection was not working. I then tried to use my roommates computer - no chance either, his connection was out as well. As a result, I had to wait until a quarter of an hour before the submission deadline before my connection got back up. I then try to log into my student account... surprise, it doesn't work! I tried and tried, but could not get it to work. Because my Internet connection is slow, it takes about a minute per try. Then, 2 minutes before the deadline, out of resources, I write an email to the professor explaining him the above with my assignment appended. The email was sent about 3 minutes past the deadline (it takes time to write an email explaining all of this). He then replies with a "I'll consult the correctors to choose the appropriate course of action". Fine. I wait for my assignment correction and do I get... a 0. A plain 0. They completely rejected my submission. It didn't matter to them that there were reasons beyond my control that prevented me from submitting my assignment properly. Ok, fair enough. The assignment is only worth 2% of my final grade.

Then comes the midterm. This was by far, by far, and I repeat by far, the worse academic experience I ever had. I am doing great through the midterm until the final question. I have an hour left to figure it out. The problem is, the question is, I strongly think so, very ill-posed. The meaning of the question is unclear and I can't to understand what it is asking. I ask the first supervisor, she obviously doesn't know anything about the matter at hand; she keeps on giving me "just make assumptions, that's all I can say". I ask for help from the second supervisor, who is supposed to be a grad student. His breath reeks alcohol, he looks at the question and says "I'll get back at you". 10 minutes elapse, I raise my hand again, he looks at me, literally ignores me, and walks out of the room to never come back 5 minutes later. Result? I lost all the points on a question worth 30% of the Midterm, not because I was not properly prepared, not because I couldn't figure it out, but because understand what in h**l was the d**n question asking.

There you go. I am very bitter about this entire thing and very frustrated. I feel that I will earn a poor grade in a class for reasons totally out of my control. I understand the material perfectly, complete my assignments in time, yet I get poor marks. Who/what should I be mad at?

 

[Poop-Loops]

Have you seen the results of the mid term yet? Maybe most people got that question wrong for the same reason and the grade will be curved.

In my E&M class the mid terms are usually around 30% average.

But the grad student should get into some major trouble for being drunk "on the clock". That's just inexcusable.

 

[Werg22]

Yes I got, 65%, the average was 76%. Had I understood that question (which I did after someone explained to me what it meant), I would have probably gotten over a 90. This is very frustrating, as that midterm is worth 60% of my final mark.

 

[JeffN]

eh, that sucks. bad situation overall.

i'd probably go see your professor about both the assignment mark and your midterm proctor. explain your situation calmly, and know that if that fails, it's outside your control and you should move on, focus on doing well on the final...

 

[morphism]

I think you have every right to be mad. Go speak with your professor (and/or course coordinator) directly.

 

[J77]

There's always someone higher in the chain that you can go speak to if you have concerns; eg. undergraduate coordinators who should be independent of the teaching (even if they teach you themselves).

 

[mr_coffee]

I'd be jacked! Def. talk to someone, but I feel your going to be stuck with that grade, I'm sure they'll say, we understand your upset and you should be we'll take care of it, and by them taking care of it, maybe the professor will talk to the grad student, probably not.

I had a professor try to screw me over because I always corrected his bad coding practices and bad code all together, in the end I owned him.

He tried to give me a 0 on an assignment that should have been a 100%. It was the final assignment and he didn't give out the grade until really close to FINAL grade submissions to the school (once they are in there, they are in there for good).

I keep checking my account to see the grade, and finally its up...a 0? WTF! I look for the reason, "WILL NOT COMPILE." So I rush down to his office, and he was just about to leave, I then confronted him and told him to show me the compilation of my program.

He said okay...he then compiles my program, works perfectly. He then says "OH IT WORKS! My mistake, you get a 100, not a 0."

Hope things work out for you!

 

[cristo]

Isn't the whole point of an exam to firstly understand what the question is asking, and then to attempt to answer it? You can't expect someone else to tell you what the question is asking. Therefore I don't think you have a reason to complain about the invigilators.

The coursework thing is pretty bad: was it your internet that wasn't working, or the college internet (i.e. are you in a room where the internet is supplied by your college)? If it's the latter, then you will have a valid reason in your college's eyes.

 

[PowerIso]

Since the question is "should you be mad", I'm going to say yes you should be mad. However, the odds that your anger or any action you take will change anything is rather low. You probably have a strong case for your first issue. You can probably have that grade reviewed or something!

Yet, the second issue is complicated. If there exist at least one student who understood the question and answered correctly, then you lost your claim. It becomes your fault for not understanding the question. Life sucks at times and I'm sorry to hear this happen to you.

 

[proton]

The meaning of the question is unclear and I can't to understand what it is asking.
Result? I lost all the points on a question worth 30% of the Midterm, not because I was not properly prepared, not because I couldn't figure it out, but because understand what in h**l was the d**n question asking.

same thing happened to me on a midterm. As a result, that's the only class I have a B in so far. But 1 person got 100% and plenty of people got the question right, so my complaining to the prof won't work

 

[user101]

cristo, if the question is posed in a way where you can't understand what's being tested of your knowledge, how can you show that you know the answer?

 

[Poop-Loops]

Isn't the whole point of an exam to firstly understand what the question is asking, and then to attempt to answer it? You can't expect someone else to tell you what the question is asking. Therefore I don't think you have a reason to complain about the invigilators.

BS. If you got this question on a test: (attachment)

What would you do?

No, seriously, I can't believe your reply here. If your boss told you something you didn't undrstand, what would you do? Try to figure it out, or just ask what he meant?

 

[user101]

$$V(r,\theta) = 42.$$

 

[NeoDevin]

Depends, if the question was actually poorly posed, then it should probably be taken off the exam, and everyone curved upwards. If, on the other hand, it was simply that the one taking the test didn't understand it, and a number of other people in the class did understand it, then the question was a good one, if a little on the tricky side.

As far as the assignment goes, I would suggest talking to the prof about it. Possibly he passed it on in an email to the marker, and it got overlooked somehow. But in the end, your assignment was late, and, unfortunately, them's the breaks. I'm willing to bet your university campus has computing/internet facilities that they make available to students, for just this reason. So that "my internet was down" is an invalid excuse. Still, your prof may be in a forgiving mood, or just be a generally nice guy, and let it pass. Talk to him.

In the end though, for the exam, if other people in the class understood and answered correctly, there's not much you can do. For the assignment, if you talk to your prof, and if he is very strict about it, then there's not much you can do. If your assignment was late, and the university has all the facilities available which you require to complete and submit the assignment on time, then no appeal will succeed, and you'll just make an enemy. (on the other hand, if you were doing it on the university computers, you have a very good case)

 

[J77]

BS. If you got this question on a test: (attachment)

Is that the whole question? It does seem a bit incomplete. Did they want you to find the potential outside the cylinder? (I'm going by the method of images hint here.)

 

[k3N70n]

Regarding your assignment I had a really similar situation. In the end I believe I got pretty screwed over but I didn't make a huge deal of it because I knew the prof well and didn't want to be a nuisance. Now, me and the prof get along really well. He's referred more students then I can count to me for tutoring. Helped me with course work outside of his courses etc. Sometimes it better not to make a big deal of the little issues.

However about the midterm, if most people understood the question and you didn't then I'd have to place the blame on you. But, with the grad student hung/drunk you have a pretty good case. I'd complain. If nothing else, blackmale the grad student. ha ha just kidding.

 

[cristo]

BS. If you got this question on a test: (attachment)

What would you do?

No, seriously, I can't believe your reply here. If your boss told you something you didn't undrstand, what would you do? Try to figure it out, or just ask what he meant?

We're not talking about my boss: obviously, since I'm being paid to work then I would just ask for clarification instead of wasting time. But, the point of an exam is to examine students on both their knowledge of material, and whether they can apply their knowledge to questions that they have not seen before. Therefore, asking "what a question means" in an exam, is pretty much asking for the answer. Of the many exams I've been in, there are a few when people asked what the question meant, to which the invigilator replied "all the information is in the question."

Oh, and to your attachment; it isn't really a question. Neither does it ask you to do anything, or to show anything: it is merely a statement of what the person writing the test has done for some problem. So, this would never come up on an examination, and your point is therefore moot.

 

[Poop-Loops]

We're not talking about my boss: obviously, since I'm being paid to work then I would just ask for clarification instead of wasting time. But, the point of an exam is to examine students on both their knowledge of material, and whether they can apply their knowledge to questions that they have not seen before. Therefore, asking "what a question means" in an exam, is pretty much asking for the answer. Of the many exams I've been in, there are a few when people asked what the question meant, to which the invigilator replied "all the information is in the question."

This is awesome. The instructor words a question poorly and you blame the student.

What's next? "Officer, it's her fault she got raped!"

Oh, and to your attachment; it isn't really a question. Neither does it ask you to do anything, or to show anything: it is merely a statement of what the person writing the test has done for some problem. So, this would never come up on an examination, and your point is therefore moot.

Of course. I mean, it was a homework problem, so it's not like he can't make a similar one on a test.

This was seriously my homework problem. I think I was just supposed to derive the equation he had, but it sure was vague.

I ran short on time, though, so I just skipped it.

 

[morphism]

I agree: cristo's replies are weird. He says, "But, the point of an exam is to examine students on both their knowledge of material, and whether they can apply their knowledge to questions that they have not seen before." And how is asking vague, ill-posed questions a good assessment of the students' knowledge and their ability to apply it?! Surely if Werg22 can present a solid case explaining why the question was badly worded, then he was dealt with unjustly. Even if not, what the TA did was inexcusable.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Here is my homework assignment from which I took that question, just so nobody thinks I left something out:

http://www.phys.washington.edu/users/schick/321A/321-07ps6.pdf

 

[cristo]

This is awesome. The instructor words a question poorly and you blame the student.

You do realize that exams are checked by other members of the faculty before they are given to students, don't you? If one student cannot understand what the question is asking him, then he has not studied enough.

What's next? "Officer, it's her fault she got raped!"

That's an utterly ridiculous comment.

Of course. I mean, it was a homework problem, so it's not like he can't make a similar one on a test.

This was seriously my homework problem. I think I was just supposed to derive the equation he had, but it sure was vague.

Well, yes, you probably did have to derive what he had, but the question is still ill-poised. It also seems strange that all of his other problem sets seem to have normal questions.

 

[cristo]

I agree: cristo's replies are weird. He says, "But, the point of an exam is to examine students on both their knowledge of material, and whether they can apply their knowledge to questions that they have not seen before." And how is asking vague, ill-posed questions a good assessment of the students' knowledge and their ability to apply it?!

But who says that the question was vague? Note that Poop-Loops has given an example of a problem from his course, but Werg22 has not given us a copy of his question. Up to now, it is only him that is saying that his question was vague. Is it not possible that he did not study the right material?

 

[Werg22]

But who says that the question was vague? Note that Poop-Loops has given an example of a problem from his course, but Werg22 has not given us a copy of his question. Up to now, it is only him that is saying that his question was vague. Is it not possible that he did not study the right material?

The course has a philosophy of "no studying material". The entire idea is to give the students a strong theoretical foundation, and for that purpose, the study resources consist of the theory itself. And no, I certainly did not overlook some relevant material.

 

[Poop-Loops]

You do realize that exams are checked by other members of the faculty before they are given to students, don't you? If one student cannot understand what the question is asking him, then he has not studied enough.

No, it is given to grad students at my school. Other faculty? My profs usually come up with the tests a day or two before they are given.

That's an utterly ridiculous comment.

Yes, blaming the victim is ridiculous.

Well, yes, you probably did have to derive what he had, but the question is still ill-poised. It also seems strange that all of his other problem sets seem to have normal questions.

Yes. This is called a "fluke" and if this happened on a test, I would have asked him "what do you want us to do?" and he would have told me. Now how to do it, but what he wants.

 

[Poop-Loops]

But who says that the question was vague? Note that Poop-Loops has given an example of a problem from his course, but Werg22 has not given us a copy of his question. Up to now, it is only him that is saying that his question was vague. Is it not possible that he did not study the right material?

Because the last time a question was well-worded, but I didn't understand it because I didn't study the material. Even if I don't know how to do what it is asking, I know what it is asking.

I can't imagine what kind of question it could have been where you have to understand the material to understand the question.

 

[cristo]

No, it is given to grad students at my school.

What's wrong with that? The point I was making was that the examination papers are checked over before going out. Are you saying that grad students are incapable of reading and making comments on basic undergraduate material?

Other faculty? My profs usually come up with the tests a day or two before they are given.

Do you actually have any proof to back up this? At my university, papers have to be written, checked and handed into the admin people by about February/March in time for the June examinations.

Yes. This is called a "fluke" and if this happened on a test, I would have asked him "what do you want us to do?" and he would have told me. Now how to do it, but what he wants.

This is pointless. You're arguing a hypothetical situation, and making it sound like it actually happened to you.

I'll summarise my point, just so that it is clear. When in an examination, it is not permitted for a student to ask the invigilator for help that extends past "can I have some more paper" or other such questions. If there is an error in the paper, then a student may ask "is this wrong" and will receive an answer, but questions such as "what does this mean?", or "how do I go about understanding this question?", are not to be answered in an examination. There are plenty of tutorials, or classes, in the weeks of teaching where it would be suitable to ask these questions, but to say that one can expect an answer to these sorts of questions in an examination is just ridiculous.

 

[Laura1013]

If there is an error in the paper, then a student may ask "is this wrong" and will receive an answer, but questions such as "what does this mean?", or "how do I go about understanding this question?", are not to be answered in an examination.

I agree with Poop-Loops on this one. Not all exams are written way ahead of time and checked thoroughly before use. Professors are human; they make mistakes. An ill-formed question is a form of an error. In my experience, communication errors are especially common from professors whose first language is not English. Wanting clarification on what the question is asking is not the same thing as asking for help in understanding the concepts posed in the question.

If the original poster was the only student who had this trouble, there's not much of a case to be made. On the other hand, if most of the students in the class were not able to determine what the question was asking due to an ambiguity, then it is not the fault of the students.

 

[cristo]

I agree with Poop-Loops on this one. Not all exams are written way ahead of time and checked thoroughly before use. Professors are human; they make mistakes. An ill-formed question is a form of an error. In my experience, communication errors are especially common from professors whose first language is not English. Wanting clarification on what the question is asking is not the same thing as asking for help in understanding the concepts posed in the question.

Let me put it this way. If one student asks me, as a TA, what one specific question means, then I would not tell them. This is because, firstly, I am not the professor, and do not know what he wants to test by that specific question. Secondly, if I tell one student what the question is asking, then I will need to stop the exam, and explain to every other student what the question is asking.

No, this is clearly no the way to proceed. If the OP wishes to complain, then fair enough, but the professor will only take notice if all students do terribly, or score zero for the last question. If some, even a handful, of students do well, then the question was suitable. In both cases, it does not matter whether the OP complains or not, since in the former, the question may be ignored, and in the latter, the examination was fair.

Why people here think that some students should get more help in an exam than others, I do not know!

 

[Poop-Loops]

What's wrong with that? The point I was making was that the examination papers are checked over before going out. Are you saying that grad students are incapable of reading and making comments on basic undergraduate material?

They know how to do the problem if they know what it is asking. If someone can't figure out what is is asking and wants it clarified, the TA or prof should do it. Otherwise, what the hell are they there for?

Do you actually have any proof to back up this? At my university, papers have to be written, checked and handed into the admin people by about February/March in time for the June examinations.

LOL

No, seriously, LOL

I had a mid term a few weeks ago. I reminded my prof about it the week before and he says "Oh... wow, I forgot. I'll have to write up the mid term this week then..."

Fast forward to last Wednesday:

"So there's a test next Friday."

"...already!? Thanks for reminding me."

He told the class what the test would be on yesterday. "Uh... conductors, method of images, Laplace's equation... energy of a system... that's about it, right?"

Because I've never met a prof who could actually keep with the outline of the class verbatim. Usually there is some leeway and he just goes by where we are in class.

This is pointless. You're arguing a hypothetical situation, and making it sound like it actually happened to you.

Let me get this straight, you've NEVER asked a professor to clarify a question for you? I see it happen all the time. I don't understand how you can see this as being weird.

I'll summarise my point, just so that it is clear. When in an examination, it is not permitted for a student to ask the invigilator for help that extends past "can I have some more paper" or other such questions. If there is an error in the paper, then a student may ask "is this wrong" and will receive an answer, but questions such as "what does this mean?", or "how do I go about understanding this question?", are not to be answered in an examination. There are plenty of tutorials, or classes, in the weeks of teaching where it would be suitable to ask these questions, but to say that one can expect an answer to these sorts of questions in an examination is just ridiculous.

Way to completely misunderstand what's going on.

It's not "hey, how do I do this?"

It's "what do you want me to do?" as in, "what do you want me to find as an answer?"

Moreover, if the description of the problem is really vague, the prof will explain it, as in, "You have a neutral plate at x=0 and one 15º away from it, blah blah", he would clarify it for your or just draw a picture when asked. It's happened a lot of times to me and people in my class.

 

[PowerIso]

Ugh, I'm tired of reading this little cat fight.

Here's my simple opinion. You're both probably correct to some degree. Poop, did anyone on the exam get it completely right? If so, you're point is invalid because someone understood the question, which implies that you should have been able too if someone else was able too. However, if you feel that the question is vague, bring up with the professor and ask him to reconsider the question, especially if a lot of people seemed confused or got it wrong. It's as simple as that, and not much more can be done.

Cristo, not every university operates like yours. My professors make up their exam on the fly and are not required to have it overlooked and reviewed. Sometimes people get tied up in the language and word a question oddly. It happens. If a question is ambiguous, then it is the professors fault. Yes part of the exam may be the ability to understand the question, but there is a difference between understanding and becoming confused by the questions intent. What's the difference? If you become confused, then you may truly lack the knowledge needed. However, if you are not sure what the question wants from you, then the misreading the intent of the question may cause you to get it wrong.

 

[cristo]

Poop-Loops. This clearly highlights the difference between the education system in the US and the UK. In exams here, in the UK, I would not imagine asking an invigilator to re-word the question for me. After all, why should he? He's written the problem in the way he wants it to be read, and he wants the student to understand what he is asking, and answer it.

In my opinion, by your professor telling you to "find x, dx/dt, etc.." he has told you what an equation of motion is. Something that a student attempting the exam should clearly know!

Finally, I will not accept such verbal abuse as you are dishing out here. If you cannot deal with being questioned, fair enough, but there is absolutely no need to launch into a personal attack.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Poop-Loops. This clearly highlights the difference between the education system in the US and the UK. In exams here, in the UK, I would not imagine asking an invigilator to re-word the question for me. After all, why should he? He's written the problem in the way he wants it to be read, and he wants the student to understand what he is asking, and answer it.

Want in one hand and spit in the other and see which one gets full faster.

In my experience teachers write the problems in ways they understand and since they are teaching, the students generally know what he is talking about. So it's coincidence that they understand him.

I've never seen a problem where wording had a major impact. That would be more of a riddle than a physics question. So if you're not trying to write a riddle, what's the problem in re-wording it? Or even elaborating on a vague part?

I mean, what you are doing in essence is saying that your profs are infallible and always communicate correctly. Somehow asking them to clarify is a sin because it never happens that they poorly word something?

In my opinion, by your professor telling you to "find x, dx/dt, etc.." he has told you what an equation of motion is. Something that a student attempting the exam should clearly know!

"Equation of motion" is just a term. It's a buzzword. I could know all the math and physics and just not know what the term means. Just like I know how to find the energy of a system, but when you say "Hamiltionian" I don't know what you mean. This happens a bit in all my classes, because they use terms from other math or physics classes. For example, in QM you have eigenvalues of a Hamiltonian. The eigenvalue also happens to be the energy. So if I ask the prof "what do you mean by 'eigenvalue?'" he'll respond "energy". It doesn't help me at all in solving the problem, it just tells me what the problem is asking.

This is especially true for foreign students. Math is universal, so x or dx/dt is seen everywhere. Why make them fail just because their English isn't up to par?

Finally, I will not accept such verbal abuse as you are dishing out here. If you cannot deal with being questioned, fair enough, but there is absolutely no need to launch into a personal attack.

Yeah yeah, I already got spanked for it.

 

[J77]

From the full question (pdf) that was posted, it seems obvious to attempt question 2 in the same way as question 1.

 

[bravernix]

If the original poster was the only student who had this trouble, there's not much of a case to be made. On the other hand, if most of the students in the class were not able to determine what the question was asking due to an ambiguity, then it is not the fault of the students.

OK, but the OP said that the average exam score was 76% and the question was worth 30% of the midterm. So, some students were obviously able to answer the question, which I would think makes this entire thread pointless.

 

[bravernix]

From the full question (pdf) that was posted, it seems obvious to attempt question 2 in the same way as question 1.

I agree, "You should be able to do this problem by the method of images in a similar way that we did the charge in the conducting sphere." I will say though, that sometimes I am not a big fan of connected questions. This one is not a great example of what I mean, but I have had exam questions which ask you to refer to the results from the previous problem. Of course if you have trouble with the previous one, that can be not so good, especially when exams consist of 3 or 4 questions.