Show it without using induction?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 3.14lwy
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Induction
AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around finding a way to show that the sum S(n) = f(n) + f(n)f(n-1) + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2) + ... + f(n)f(n-1)...f(1) equals 2n without using induction. Participants explore algebraic relationships, particularly how S(n) can be expressed in terms of S(n-1) and the function f(n). They derive that S(n) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)], leading to a first-order difference equation. The conversation emphasizes checking if the guessed solution, 2n, satisfies the recurrence relation derived from the equation. Ultimately, the goal is to establish the relationship between S(n) and its previous terms to validate the claim.
3.14lwy
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
how to show this:

if f(x) = 2x/(2x-1)

then show f(n) + f(n)f(n-1) + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2) + ... + f(n)f(n-1)f(n-2)...f(1) = 2n .


I have tried to use induction , and I can show it.
but , I can't show it without using induction.


can anyone tell how to show it without using induction?

thank you ! :smile:
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
let S(n) be the sum you want.

Can you relate S(n) to S(n-1) algebraically? Hint, does the LHS of your equation have anything common to every term?
 
Do you see what happens when you write out a few terms of the products?

f(1)f(2)= \frac{2}{1}\frac{4}{3}= \frac{(2)(4)}{(1){3}}
f(1)f(2)f(3)= \frac{2}{1}\frac{4}{3}\frac{6}{5}= \frac{(2)(4)(6)}{(1)(3)(5)
and so on. You get a fraction with something "like" a factorial in both numerator and denominator except that the numerator has only even numbers and the denominator only odd numbers.

(2)(4)(6)...(2n)= (2)(1)(2)(2)(2)(3)...(2)(n)= 2n n!
and (1)(3)(5)...(2n+1)= ((1)(2)(3)(4)(5)...(2n)(2n+1))/(2)(4)...(2n))
= (2n+1)!/(2nn!)
Does that give you any ideas?
 
matt grime said:
let S(n) be the sum you want.

Can you relate S(n) to S(n-1) algebraically? Hint, does the LHS of your equation have anything common to every term?


I find S(n) = f(n)*S(n-1)

and f(n) = (2^2n)(n!)/(2n+1)!

then , S(n) = product of (2^2r)(r!)/(2r+1)! from r = 1 to n

am I right ?

however i still don't know how to do?
 
3.14lwy said:
I find S(n) = f(n)*S(n-1)
am I right?

No, you're not right.
 
matt grime said:
No, you're not right.

Oh! :-p

it should be S(n) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)]

but still don't know :confused:

if it is in this from:

X(n) = aX(n-1) + b

i can find X(n) in term of a , b and X(1) ,


but now the a and the b is changing........ :confused:
 
You've found a first order difference equation. As with differential equations you guess a solution by inspection based upon f(n).
 
matt grime said:
You've found a first order difference equation. As with differential equations you guess a solution by inspection based upon f(n).

S(n) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)]

S(n) - S(n-1) = f(n)[1 + S(n-1)] - S(n-1)
= f(n) + [f(n) - 1]S(n-1)

____________________________________________________

S(1) = 2/1 = 2

S(2) = 4/3 + 8/3 = 12/3 = 4

S(3) = 6/5 + (6*4)/(5*3) + (6*4*2)/(5*3*1)
= 2*3/5 + 2*4/5 + 2*4*2/5
= 2[3/5 + 3*(4/5)]
= 2*3*(5/5) = 6

S(4)
...
...
...
..
.

S(2) - S(1) = 2......
......


I really cannot find the solution :cry:
 
Last edited:
You're given 2n, and asked to *show* it is the solution, so it is perfectly acceptable to check it satisfies the recurrence relation by simple substitution.

And:

S(n) = \frac{2n(1+S(n-1))}{2n-1}

it is clear what kind of answer you should guess from looking at that ie that 2n is what you want since 2n-1 = 2(n-1)+1
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top