Show PE to KE change in closed system is independent of initial velocity

In summary, the conversation discusses how to show that a change from potential to kinetic energy in a closed system is independent of the inertial frame of reference. The math presented demonstrates this concept for a specific case of two masses connected by a compressed spring. To generalize it, the Galilean transformations and the sum of conservative forces are used to show that the change in potential energy and kinetic energy remains the same in both frames of reference.
  • #1
rcgldr
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Because of the kinetic energy and frames of reference thread:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=534883

I was wondering how to show that a change from potential to kinetic energy in a closed system is independent of the (inertial) frame of reference. I think the math below demonstrates this.

Example closed system: a compressed massless spring with potential energy ΔE and two masses. The compressed spring is released and accelerates the two masses, increasing the mechanical energy of the closed system by ΔE.

From frame of reference of the center of mass

m1 = mass 1
m2 = mass 2
v1 = final velocity of mass 1 wrt center of mass
v2 = final velocity of mass 2 wrt center of mass

It's a closed system so momentum is conserved

m1 v1 + m2 v2 = 0

total kinetic energy change in system

ΔE = 1/2 m1 v12 + 1/2 m2 v22

With the center of mass moving with respect to some inertial frame of reference:

v0 = velocity center of mass wrt frame
va = v1 + v0 = final velocity of mass 1 wrt frame
vb = v2 + v0 = final velocity of mass 2 wrt frame

It's a closed system so momentum is conserved

m1 va + m2 vb = (m1 + m2) v0

total kinetic energy change in system

ΔE = 1/2 m1 va2 + 1/2 m2 vb2 - 1/2 (m1 + m2) v02

ΔE = 1/2 m1 (v1 + v0)2 + 1/2 m2 (v2 + v0)2 - 1/2 (m1 + m2) v02

ΔE = 1/2 m1 (v12 + 2 v1 v0 + v02) + 1/2 m2 (v22 + 2 v2 v0 + v02) - 1/2 (m1 + m2) v02

ΔE = 1/2 m1 (v12 + 2 v1 v0) + 1/2 m2 (v22 + 2 v2 v0)

ΔE = 1/2 m1 v12 + 1/2 m2 v22 + m1 v1 v0 + m2 v2 v0

going back to momentum equation:

m1 va + m2 vb - (m1 + m2) v0 = 0

m1 (v1 + v0) + m2 (v2 + v0) - (m1 + m2) v0 = 0

m1 v1 + m2 v2 = 0

m1 v1 v0 + m2 v2 v0 = 0

ΔE = 1/2 m1 v12 + 1/2 m2 v22
 
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  • #2
You showed that this works for the specific case of two masses connected with a compressed spring. You need to show that if ##\Delta U +\Delta K =0## in inertial frame of reference ##O## is true, then it is also true in inertial frame ##O'## that is moving with constant velocity ##u## relative to ##O##. This is how to do it in one dimension; it can be easily extended to three dimensions. The Galilean transformations are$$x'=x-ut~\rightarrow~dx'=dx-udt;~~v'=v-ut.$$Let ##F_c## be the sum of all conservative forces acting on the mass. The change in potential energy is the negative of the work done by the conservative forces. In the unprimed frame we have, $$\Delta U=-\int F_c dx~~\mathrm{and} ~~\Delta K=\frac{1}{2} m \left( v_f^2-v_i^2 \right)$$so that$$0=\Delta U +\Delta K=-\int F_c dx+\frac{1}{2} m \left( v_f^2-v_i^2 \right).$$Similarly,$$\Delta U'=-\int F_c dx'=-\int F_c (dx-udt)=-\int F_c dx+u\int F_cdt=\Delta U+uJ~~~~~(1)$$where ##J=\int F_cdt## is the impulse delivered to the mass. Also,$$\Delta K'=\frac{1}{2}m\left({v'}_f^2-{v'}_i^2 \right)=\frac{1}{2}m\left[(v_f-u)^2-(v_i-u)^2 \right]=\frac{1}{2}m\left[v_f^2-v_i^2-2u(v_f-v_i) \right]$$ $$\Delta K'=\frac{1}{2}m\left(v_f^2-v_i^2 \right) -mu\Delta v=\Delta K-uJ~~~~~(2)$$Adding equations (1) and (2) gives the desired result,$$\Delta U' +\Delta K' =\Delta U +\Delta K=0.$$
 
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1. How can the change in potential energy (PE) to kinetic energy (KE) be independent of initial velocity in a closed system?

The conservation of energy principle states that energy cannot be created or destroyed in a closed system. This means that the total amount of energy in the system must remain constant. As a result, any change in PE must be balanced by an equal change in KE, regardless of the initial velocity.

2. Can you provide an example to explain this concept?

Imagine a roller coaster at the top of a hill. At this point, the car has high PE but no KE. As the car goes down the hill, its PE decreases while its KE increases. At the bottom of the hill, the car has no PE but high KE. The total energy in the system (PE + KE) remains the same throughout the ride, regardless of the initial velocity of the car.

3. Does this concept apply to all types of energy in a closed system?

Yes, the principle of conservation of energy applies to all types of energy in a closed system, including potential and kinetic energy. This means that the total amount of energy in the system must remain constant, regardless of any changes in individual forms of energy.

4. How does this concept relate to the law of conservation of energy?

The law of conservation of energy is a fundamental principle in physics that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed in a closed system. The concept of PE to KE change being independent of initial velocity in a closed system is a direct result of this law.

5. Are there any exceptions to this concept?

In a closed system, where no external forces act on the objects, the change in PE to KE will always be independent of initial velocity. However, if external forces are present (such as friction), some energy may be converted into other forms (such as heat) and the total energy in the system may not remain constant. In this case, the change in PE to KE may not be independent of initial velocity.

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