Show that Temperature remains unchanged in phase changes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical demonstration that temperature remains unchanged during phase changes, specifically in the context of heat transfer. Participants explore various approaches to show this concept, including energy balance equations and the implications of latent heat.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an energy balance approach involving enthalpy flow rates and mass flow rates to demonstrate that temperature does not change during phase transitions.
  • Another participant questions the use of the phase rule in this context, suggesting that the focus should remain on energy balance equations.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the appropriateness of using Gibbs' rule, noting that it is derived from experimental evidence and may not apply to the current scenario.
  • A suggestion is made to model heat capacity using a Dirac delta function at the phase transition, which would illustrate a discontinuous change in enthalpy while keeping temperature constant, although it is acknowledged that this does not provide a proof.
  • Participants discuss the challenges of expressing mathematical fractions in LaTeX, with some seeking alternative methods for easier notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to demonstrate the constancy of temperature during phase changes. There are competing views on the applicability of the phase rule and Gibbs' rule, as well as differing opinions on the effectiveness of proposed mathematical models.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their approaches, including the reliance on experimental evidence for certain rules and the complexity of mathematical expressions. There is also a noted uncertainty regarding the use of specific theoretical frameworks in the context of a heat transfer course.

dRic2
Well, I have to show mathematically that T remains unchanged in phase change. I know it comes from sperimental evidences, but my professor asked to show it with "numbers". So I thought to go like this:

(dH_l)/dt ≈ (dm)/dt) h_v + Q

Energy balance for system (let's say it is liquid and changes into vapor). h_v is the entalpy flow-rate leaving the system (liquid) so it's the entalpy of the vapor. Q is the heat.

(dm)/(dt) is the mass (of vapor) leaving the system. In fact (mass balance) (dm)/(dt) = - m_o (the mass can only leave the system)

So:

(dH_l)/(dt) = (dh_l m)/(dt) = m(dh_l)/(dt) + h_l(dm)/(dt) ≈ (dm)/(dt) h_v + Q
<br /> m(dh_l)/(dt) + h_l(dm)/(dt) ≈ (dm)/(dt) h_v + Q<br />

m(dh_l)/(dt) ≈ (dm)/(dt) h_v - h_l(dm)/(dt) + Q = -Δh_ev * (dm)/(dt) + Q

Now I have to show that, since dh = cp*dT, the equation gives 0 so that dT/dt = 0 -> T = cost.

I suppose the only way to show this is to say that these Δh_ev * (dm)/(dt) + Q are equal because of the definition latent heat.

Is this right, or should I go for an other way?

ps: How to us fractions? It would be mush easier to visualize

Thanks!
 
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Are you allowed to use the phase rule?
 
dRic2 said:
ps: How to us fractions?
If you are asking how to call fractions in LaTeX, then just type \frac{A}{B}, where A goes into the numerator and B goes into the denominator. Here is what shows up: ##\frac{A}{B}##.
 
Chestermiller said:
Are you allowed to use the phase rule?
I think no. I mean, the course is "heat transfer" so I suppose I have to use energy balance equation. And by the way I think Gibb's rule is derived by the sperimental evidence that a one-component system's "state" is determined by defining 2 variables (like T and P) so I don't think I can use it here. Sorry for my English, I'm trying to translate and I hope I used the correct words.

Tio Barnabe said:
If you are asking how to call fractions in LaTeX, then just type \frac{A}{B}, where A goes into the numerator and B goes into the denominator. Here is what shows up: ##\frac{A}{B}##.

is there no other way? it takes to much to write frac{}{} every time... :(
 
dRic2 said:
is there no other way? it takes to much to write frac{}{} every time... :(
Unfortunately, no. :frown:
 
dRic2 said:
I think no. I mean, the course is "heat transfer" so I suppose I have to use energy balance equation. And by the way I think Gibb's rule is derived by the sperimental evidence that a one-component system's "state" is determined by defining 2 variables (like T and P) so I don't think I can use it here. Sorry for my English, I'm trying to translate and I hope I used the correct words.
Not if there are 2 phases.
 
Chestermiller said:
Not if there are 2 phases.
Yes, I know. I said it's derived. I know the rule for a generic system with N components and F phases, but the "first" case (with F = 1 and N = 1) can not be stated other than by evidence. Anyway, suppose I can not use it. Any other suggestions?
 
dRic2 said:
Yes, I know. I said it's derived. I know the rule for a generic system with N components and F phases, but the "first" case (with F = 1 and N = 1) can not be stated other than by evidence. Anyway, suppose I can not use it. Any other suggestions?
Model the heat capacity by including a Dirac delta function in temperature at the phase transition. Of course, all this does is cause the enthalpy to undergo a discontinuous change equal to the heat of vaporization at the phase transition, while the temperature remains constant. So it doesn't really prove anything.
 
Chestermiller said:
Model the heat capacity by including a Dirac delta function in temperature at the phase transition. Of course, all this does is cause the enthalpy to undergo a discontinuous change equal to the heat of vaporization at the phase transition, while the temperature remains constant. So it doesn't really prove anything.
Mhm sounds too much... Can you tell my, by the way, what's wrong with my original thinking?
 

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