Show that the limit is equal to zero

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on proving that if the series $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_{n}$ converges, then $\lim_{n \to \infty} na_{n} = 0$, where $a_{n}$ is a positive and decreasing sequence. Participants explore various approaches to this limit, including the use of the Cauchy criterion and inequalities.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that since $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_{n}$ converges, it satisfies the Cauchy criterion, leading to the conclusion that $|na_{n}| < \epsilon$ for sufficiently large $n$, thus implying $\lim_{n \to \infty} na_{n} = 0$.
  • Others propose that for any $h > 0$, there exists an $n_{0}$ such that for all $n > n_{0}$, $a_{n} < \frac{h}{n}$, which also suggests that $\lim_{n \to \infty} na_{n} = 0$.
  • A later reply questions the application of the triangle inequality and suggests that the reasoning may not hold without additional conditions, emphasizing the need for careful treatment of the terms involved.
  • Some participants express the challenge of proving that if $a_{n} \ge \frac{h}{n}$ for some $h > 0$, then the series diverges, indicating a potential contradiction with the convergence of the series.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of inequalities and the relationship between the terms of the series, with some participants suggesting alternative approaches to demonstrate the limit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to prove the limit. There are multiple competing views on the application of the Cauchy criterion and the implications of the inequalities presented.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on specific interpretations of the Cauchy criterion and the properties of convergent series, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion includes various assumptions about the behavior of the sequence $a_{n}$ and the conditions under which the limit can be established.

mathmari
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It is given that $a_{n}$ is a positive and decreasing sequence.
Show that if $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}$ converges, $\lim_{n \to \infty}na_{n}=0$.
That's what I tried.Could you tell me if it is right??
$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}$ converges,so it satisfies the Cauchy criterion,so :
$\forall m,n$ with $m>n$ it exists a $n_{0}$ such that for $m,n \geq n_{0}$:$|a_{n}+a_{n+1}+...+a_{m-1}+a_{m}|< \epsilon$ .From the Triangle inequality,we have that $|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}|< \epsilon$ and because of the fact that $a_{n}$ is decreasing,$|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}| \leq |a_{n}|+|a_{n}|+...+|a_{n}|+|a_{n}|=n|a_{n}|=|na_{n}| < \epsilon$.
$$|na_{n}| < \epsilon$$ ,so $\lim_{n \to \infty}na_{n}=0$
 
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mathmari said:
It is given that $a_{n}$ is a positive and decreasing sequence.
Show that if $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}$ converges, $\lim_{n \to \infty}na_{n}=0$.
That's what I tried.Could you tell me if it is right??
$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}$ converges,so it satisfies the Cauchy criterion,so :
$\forall m,n$ with $m>n$ it exists a $n_{0}$ such that for $m,n \geq n_{0}$:$|a_{n}+a_{n+1}+...+a_{m-1}+a_{m}|< \epsilon$ .From the Triangle inequality,we have that $|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}|< \epsilon$ and because of the fact that $a_{n}$ is decreasing,$|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}| \leq |a_{n}|+|a_{n}|+...+|a_{n}|+|a_{n}|=n|a_{n}|=|na_{n}| < \epsilon$.
$$|na_{n}| < \epsilon$$ ,so $\lim_{n \to \infty}na_{n}=0$

If the series $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_{n}$ converges, then for any h>0 there is an $n_{0}$ for which for all $n>n_{0}$ is...

$\displaystyle a_{n} < \frac{h}{n} \implies n\ a_{n} < h\ (1)$

... and that means that $\displaystyle \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} n\ a_{n} = 0$...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
If the series $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_{n}$ converges, then for any h>0 there is an $n_{0}$ for which for all $n>n_{0}$ is...

$\displaystyle a_{n} < \frac{h}{n} \implies n\ a_{n} < h\ (1)$

... and that means that $\displaystyle \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} n\ a_{n} = 0$...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$

And if I have to use the Cauchy Criterion for series...how can I solve this?
 
chisigma said:
If the series $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_{n}$ converges, then for any h>0 there is an $n_{0}$ for which for all $n>n_{0}$ is...

$\displaystyle a_{n} < \frac{h}{n}$
I think the challenge is to prove this.

mathmari said:
$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}$ converges,so it satisfies the Cauchy criterion,so :
$\forall m,n$ with $m>n$ it exists a $n_{0}$ such that for $m,n \geq n_{0}$:$|a_{n}+a_{n+1}+...+a_{m-1}+a_{m}|< \epsilon$. .From the Triangle inequality,we have that $|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}|< \epsilon$.
First, in the Cauchy criterion $m$ and $n$ should be quantified only once: For a given $\epsilon>0$ there exists an $n_0$ such that for all $n_0\le n\le m$... Second, the last inequality holds not by the triangle inequality but because
\[
|a_{n}+a_{n+1}+...+a_{m-1}+a_{m}|=a_{n}+a_{n+1}+...+a_{m-1}+a_{m}
\]
since all $a_i$ are positive by assumption. If it were not so, we could only conclude that
\[
|a_{n}+a_{n+1}+...+a_{m-1}+a_{m}|\le|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}|
\]
and the fact that the left-hand side is $<\epsilon$ does not imply that so is the right-hand side.

mathmari said:
and because of the fact that $a_{n}$ is decreasing,$|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}| \leq |a_{n}|+|a_{n}|+...+|a_{n}|+|a_{n}|=n|a_{n}|=|na_{n}| < \epsilon$.
Here, the right-hand side of the last equality should be $(m-n+1)a_n$ and not $na_n$ since
\[
|a_{n}|+|a_{n+1}|+...+|a_{m-1}|+|a_{m}|
\]
has $m-n+1$ terms. But we can take $m=2n-1$ so that $m-n+1=n$. More importantly, the two facts
\begin{align}
a_n+\dots+a_m&\le na_n&&(1)\\
a_n+\dots+a_m&<\epsilon&&(2)\\
\end{align}
do not imply that $na_n<\epsilon$. For this, the inequality in (1) should be reversed.

Suppose that for a given $\epsilon$ we found an $n_0$ such that for all $m$ and $n$,
\[
n_0\le n\le m\implies a_n+\dots+a_m<\epsilon\qquad(3)
\]
We would like to find something smaller than $a_n+\dots+a_m$ to conclude from (3) that it is $<\epsilon$. Therefore, it makes sense to compare each term in $a_n+\dots+a_m$ not with $a_n$, but with $a_m$:
\[
(m-n+1)a_m\le a_n+\dots+a_m
\]
But we would like to have something like $ma_m$ and not $(m-n+1)a_m$. We can't have $ma_m$ because we don't have enough terms: we can start only from $a_n$ and not from $a_1$. Alternatively, we could put $m=2n$; then, roughly speaking, there are $n$ terms of whose the last is $a_{2n}$, so $na_{2n}\le a_n+\dots+a_m<\epsilon$. But to show that $na_n\to0$ we need to show that every $na_n$ (starting from some point) is small; it would not suffice to show this only for a subsequence $a_{2n}$. Note, however, that $na_n\to0$ is equivalent to $(n/2)a_n\to0$. So the idea is to consider sums from $n/2$ to $n$ (roughly speaking because one needs to take care of odd $n$ for which $n/2$ is not defined) and to compare such sums with $n/2$ times its smallest term, i.e., last term $a_n$. Then we would get $(n/2)a_n\le a_{n/2}+\dots+a_n<\epsilon$.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
I think the challenge is to prove this...

If they exist an $ h > 0$ and an $n_{0}$ such that for any $n>n_{0}$ is $a_{n} \ge \frac{h}{n}$, then the series diverges and that is the prove...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
If the series $\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_{n}$ converges, then for any h>0 there is an $n_{0}$ for which for all $n>n_{0}$ is...

$\displaystyle a_{n} < \frac{h}{n}$
This means
\[
\forall h>0\,\exists n_0\,\forall n>n_0\;a_n<\frac{h}{n}\qquad(1)
\]

chisigma said:
If they exist an $ h > 0$ and an $n_{0}$ such that for any $n>n_{0}$ is $a_{n} \ge \frac{h}{n}$, then the series diverges
And this means
\[
\exists h>0\,\exists n_0\,\forall n>n_0\;a_n\ge\frac{h}{n}\qquad(2)
\]
I agree that (2) implies that the series diverges, i.e., a contradiction. (Even then, how does it imply that? Using the fact that the harmonic series diverges? And how to prove that? Using the integral test? The original claim can be proved using just the fact that partial sums of a convergent series form a Cauchy sequence, without using such complicated concepts as Riemann integral.) But (2) is not the negation of (1). It is stronger than the negation of (1), so it is easier to derive a contradiction from (2), but it does not mean that the negation of (1) is false.
 

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