Sigma field generated by singletons of real line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the sigma field generated by the set of singletons of the real line, denoted as A={ω:ω∈ℝ}. Participants explore the nature of the sigma-algebra σ(A), particularly its closure properties and the types of sets it contains, focusing on countable and cocountable sets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that σ(A) does not contain intervals in ℝ, questioning the nature of the sigma field generated by singletons.
  • Another participant suggests that σ(A) consists of all subsets of ℝ that are either countable or have a countable complement, indicating that it would not include intervals.
  • Multiple participants reiterate the same conjecture about the structure of σ(A), emphasizing the importance of the term "countable" in their reasoning.
  • A later reply confirms that σ(A) contains all countable subsets and cocountable subsets, providing a rationale for why the conjecture might be correct.
  • Participants express concerns about the LaTeX rendering system, noting issues with specific commands used in their posts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conjecture that σ(A) consists of countable and cocountable sets, but the discussion remains open regarding the inclusion of other types of sets, such as intervals.

Contextual Notes

There is an implicit assumption that the properties of sigma-algebras apply, but the discussion does not resolve whether the conjectured structure of σ(A) is definitive or if other possibilities exist.

rukawakaede
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Suppose set [tex]A=\{\{\omega\}:\omega\in\mathbb{R}\}[/tex]. What can you say more about it? In particular, on the [tex]\sigma(A)[/tex] the smallest sigma field generated by [tex]A[/tex], i.e. it is closed under complements/countable intersections or unions and the whole space is in the sigma field.

Clearly, if here [tex]\mathbb{R}[/tex] replace to a finite space [tex]\Omega[/tex], then [tex]\sigma(\Omega)=\mathcal{P}(\Omega)[/tex] since all subset of [tex]\Omega[/tex] can be written as a countable union of singletons of [tex]\Omega[/tex].

But it is not true for space which is uncountably infinite like [tex]\mathbb{R}[/tex].

My initial thought is that [tex]\sigma(A)[/tex] does not contain intervals in [tex]\mathbb{R}[/tex]. However i am not sure if I miss anything?
 
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My guess is that [tex]\sigma(A)=\{A\subseteq \mathbb{R}~\vert~A~\text{is countable or}~\mathbb{R}\setminus A~\text{is countable}\}[/tex]

So it wouldn't contain the intervals...

Edit: Wow, LaTeX is acting weird. And I don't think I typed a mistake. anyway, the second line says what I think the sigma-algebra would be like...
 
micromass said:
My guess is that [tex]\sigma(A)=\{A\subseteq \mathbb{R} \vert A[/tex] is countable or [tex]\mathbb{R}\setminus A[/tex] is countable[tex]\}[/tex]

So it wouldn't contain the intervals...

Edit: Wow, LaTeX is acting weird. And I don't think I typed a mistake. anyway, the second line says what I think the sigma-algebra would be like...

Thanks! I was looking for an argument for this. Now I know the key word is "countable".
 
micromass said:
My guess is that [tex]\sigma(A)=\{A\subseteq \mathbb{R}~\vert~A~\text{is countable or}~\mathbb{R}\setminus A~\text{is countable}\}[/tex]

So it wouldn't contain the intervals...

Edit: Wow, LaTeX is acting weird. And I don't think I typed a mistake. anyway, the second line says what I think the sigma-algebra would be like...

Also, I found that the TeX rendering system here does not support \text{...} within the tex block. Refer my previous reply for this.
 
That's wierd, I never noticed \text{...} didn't work. I'm sure I used it before here... Oh well.
 
It's not so hard to prove that micromass' guess is correct. Certainly [itex]\sigma(A)[/itex] contains all countable subsets (a countable set is the countable union of its singletons) and cocountable subsets (take complements). On the other hand, it is easy to see that his guess is a sigma-algebra containing A.
 

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