Simple fundemental Electromagnetics question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding how to determine the maximum permeability of cast iron using B-H curves in the context of electromagnetics. Participants explore the definitions and calculations related to permeability, including dynamic and static permeability, while addressing issues related to an image reference in the original question.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on how to derive maximum permeability from a B-H curve, suggesting that it involves finding the point with the steepest gradient.
  • Another participant introduces the distinction between dynamic permeability (dB/dH) and static permeability (B/H), indicating that the choice of which to use depends on the context of the operating point.
  • There is mention of the historical dependence of B on H in hysteresis curves, although one participant later suggests that the curves in question do not exhibit this characteristic.
  • Several participants discuss technical issues related to the image link provided in the original post, indicating confusion over its accessibility.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of permeability and the relevance of hysteresis in the context of the B-H curve. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of how to apply these concepts to the original question.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the image referenced may not be accessible to all, which could limit the discussion's clarity. There is also ambiguity regarding the definitions of dynamic and static permeability and their implications for the analysis of the B-H curve.

Learnphysics
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I'm just trying to get my head around electromagnetics for the first time, and need help understanding a question that asks:

"Using BH curves find the maximum permeability of the cast iron forming the magnetic path."

Now from wikipedia I know that the permeability of cast iron should be around 0.25H/m.

What I don't understand is how to get this quantity from a B-H curve like this one:
http://imgur.com/eiv6IuN

Now what I do understand is that permeability is given by B/H essentially. That would imply it is the gradient of these lines.

So to find the maximum permeability all we need to d is find the point with the most positive gradient.

Is this logical correct?
 
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It depends on what permeability you have in mind.

For small perturbations about an operating point H, the slope of the B-H curve is the permeability. In other words, dB/dH. It would be called dynamic permeability.

But one can also talk of static permeability. To get it, you again pick your operating point H along the B-H curve but now permeability is simply B/H.

In both cases the hysteresis curves show that the B corresponding to your picked H depends on the history of applied H.

I'm sorry, your image does not show on my computer.
 
The image referred to by Learnphysics ...

eiv6IuN.png
 
Thanks Nascent. As i suspected, those are not hysteresis curves, avoiding the ambiguity I referred to as 'history'.

so my first comment applies except ignore the bit about history.

@nascent - any idea why my pc didn't show the image?
 
Yes, poster cited as an image a URL which is not an image file. Incorrect use of
 
NascentOxygen said:
Yes, poster cited as an image a URL which is not an image file. Incorrect use of [/QUOTE]

So how did you manage to bring the image up?
 
rude man said:
So how did you manage to bring the image up?
I found OP's URL and fed it to the browser, and copied the URL of the image that came up.
 
NascentOxygen said:
I found OP's URL and fed it to the browser, and copied the URL of the image that came up.

Thanks!
rm
 

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