Simple Harmonic Motion in x direction

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a simple harmonic oscillator with velocity expressed as a function of time. Participants are tasked with determining parameters such as angular frequency, amplitude, frequency, period, and phase shift based on the given velocity equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the integration of the velocity function to find the position function and question the sign of the amplitude. There are inquiries about the integration constant and its implications on the phase shift. Some participants explore trigonometric identities to reconcile the negative amplitude with the standard form of the harmonic motion equation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants exploring different interpretations of the phase shift and the implications of negative amplitude. Some guidance has been offered regarding the choice of integration constant and the use of trigonometric identities to adjust the phase. There is no explicit consensus yet, as participants continue to clarify their understanding and reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information they can use or the methods they can apply. The discussion includes questioning assumptions about the initial conditions and the standard forms of harmonic motion equations.

Yubsicle
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Homework Statement


A simple harmonic oscillator, with oscillations in the x direction, has velocity given by: $$v_{x} = (2.2 \frac {\mathrm{m}} {\mathrm{s}}) \sin [(6.9 \frac {\mathrm{rad}} {\mathrm{s}}) t]$$.
Find the values of ##\omega , A, f , T ,## and ##\phi##

Homework Equations


$$v_{x} = \frac {dx}{dt}$$
$$x = A \cos (\omega t - \frac{\pi}{2}) = A \sin \omega t$$
$$\omega = \frac{2\pi}{T} = 2 \pi f$$

The Attempt at a Solution


I integrated v with respect to t and got $$x = (-0.3188\mathrm{m})\cos [(6.9\frac{rad}{s} t)] $$
(I'm assuming that the integration constant C = 0, please correct me if I'm wrong). The first problem I have is that A is negative, and my understanding is that amplitude can only be positive. Do I take the absolute value of -0.3188 and get ##A = 0.3188##, did I make a mistake, or do I need to do more steps?
The second problem is that the formula is ##x = A \cos (\omega t - \frac{\pi}{2})## but i don't have a ##-\frac{\pi}{2}## anywhere. Again, is there an easy fix, did I mess up, or have I not completed all the steps needed? Thanks in advance.
 
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What happened to your general phase shift ##\phi##?
 
Oh, it looks like I misread my textbook. Apparently ##x = A \cos(\omega t - \frac{\pi}{2})## only works if ##x = 0## when ##t = 0##, and otherwise it's ##x = A \cos(\omega t + \phi)##. So I was wrong in assuming that C = 0.
That brings me to $$(-0.3188 \mathrm{m})\cos [(6.9\frac{\mathrm{rad}}{\mathrm{s}})t]+C$$ , which is missing ##\phi## and I really don't know what to do about C. Where do I go from here?
 
Yubsicle said:
So I was wrong in assuming that C = 0.
Not really. The integration constant is related to the average displacement. This can be chosen to be zero. The general statement for ##x## with this choice is what you gave, ##x = A \cos(\omega t + \phi)##. Try applying some trigonometric identities to this.
 
I think I get it now. Plugging ##t = 0## into the equation given by the problem gives ##v = 0##, so ##\sin(\omega t+ \phi) = 0## if ##\phi = 0## and so ##x = A \cos\omega t## . However, I still get ##A = -0.3188##. Do I just take the absolute value, since the cosine function has the same "height" on both sides of the y-axis (not sure how to word it)?
 
Yubsicle said:

The Attempt at a Solution


I integrated v with respect to t and got $$x = (-0.3188\mathrm{m})\cos [(6.9\frac{rad}{s} t)] $$
(I'm assuming that the integration constant C = 0, please correct me if I'm wrong).
Not relevant to the problem, but OK.
The first problem I have is that A is negative, and my understanding is that amplitude can only be positive.
Right.
Do I take the absolute value of -0.3188 and get ##A = 0.3188##, did I make a mistake, or do I need to do more steps?
You could but you can also wind up with an expression with A>0. Consider -cos(x) = sin(x + φ) & you pick the correct φ.
The second problem is that the formula is ##x = A \cos (\omega t - \frac{\pi}{2})##
? I don't think that is a correct solution for x(t) regardless of the constant of integration or the sign of A.
 
Yubsicle said:
I think I get it now. Plugging ##t = 0## into the equation given by the problem gives ##v = 0##, so ##\sin(\omega t+ \phi) = 0## if ##\phi = 0## and so ##x = A \cos\omega t## . However, I still get ##A = -0.3188##. Do I just take the absolute value, since the cosine function has the same "height" on both sides of the y-axis (not sure how to word it)?
I suggest you do what I proposed and apply trigonometric identities to the general expression.
 
Yubsicle said:
I still get A=−0.3188A. Do I just take the absolute value
No, just taking the absolute value, and keeping all else the same, yields a different equation, so will not match the data. The equation with a negative amplitude is a valid description of x, but doesn't fit the canonical form. I.e., by convention, we generally arrange that the amplitude is positive by adjusting the phase.
 
Alright, I used the trig identity ##\cos(\theta + \pi) = -\cos(\theta)## and got ##\phi = \pi \:\mathrm{rad}## and ##A = 0.32\:\mathrm{m}## (rounded to 2 sig figs), as well as ##\omega = 6.9\:\mathrm{rad/s} , T = 0.91\:\mathrm{s}, f = 1.1\:\mathrm{Hz}##. Is my use of trig identities, and the value for ##\phi## correct?
rude man said:
Consider -cos(x) = sin(x + φ) & you pick the correct φ.
Does it matter that I used ##\cos(\theta + \pi) = -\cos(\theta)## instead of the one you suggested?
 
  • #10
Yubsicle said:
Is my use of trig identities, and the value for ϕ correct?
Yes.
Yubsicle said:
Does it matter that I used ##\cos(\theta + \pi) = -\cos(\theta)## instead of the one you suggested?
No, that's fine.
 
  • #11
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help.
 

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