Size of Star Images: Electronic Effect, Feynman Paths, or Daft Question?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factors influencing the size of star images captured by telescopes, particularly addressing whether this is due to electronic effects in camera pixels, the behavior of photons as described by Feynman paths, or if the question itself is trivial. The scope includes theoretical considerations of optics and imaging in astronomy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the enlargement of star images could be attributed to electronic effects in camera pixels, where the intensity of light on one pixel may influence adjacent pixels.
  • Others argue that the spread of photons could be explained by Feynman's paths, suggesting a quantum perspective on how light behaves.
  • A participant notes that all telescopes have limits to their resolving power based on factors such as wavelength and aperture, leading to the formation of an "Airy disk" for point sources like stars.
  • Technical limits such as the Rayleigh criterion and Dawes' limit are mentioned as ways to characterize the resolving power of telescopes, with an emphasis on diffraction limits.
  • One participant asserts that understanding these phenomena does not necessarily require quantum electrodynamics, as classical wave theory suffices for explaining diffraction effects.
  • Another participant expresses gratitude for the clarification on saturation and blooming effects in imaging.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the primary causes of star image enlargement, with no consensus reached on whether electronic effects, Feynman's paths, or other factors are most significant.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of resolving power and the complexities of diffraction theory, which may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

TerryW
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TL;DR
Is the size of a star image determined by pixels in the camera or by Feynman's paths
Images of stars taken by Earth based telescopes can be enlarged by atmospheric fluctuations, but images of bright stars taken by Hubble are also large. Is this the result of some electronic effect in the camera pixels whereby the intensity of light falling on a pixel can cause adjacent pixels to record light, or is the image enlarged by lots of photons traveling on nearby Feynman paths which result in them being spread out. Or is this a daft question?
 
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TerryW said:
Summary:: Is the size of a star image determined by pixels in the camera or by Feynman's paths

Images of stars taken by Earth based telescopes can be enlarged by atmospheric fluctuations, but images of bright stars taken by Hubble are also large. Is this the result of some electronic effect in the camera pixels whereby the intensity of light falling on a pixel can cause adjacent pixels to record light, or is the image enlarged by lots of photons traveling on nearby Feynman paths which result in them being spread out. Or is this a daft question?

All telescopes, even those in space, have limits to their resolving power based on the wavelength of light being observed and the aperture (a.k.a size of diameter) of the telescope.

Even an ideal telescope, perfect in every way although having a finite aperture, will not resolve far away stars to a point. The star (or any point source) will instead form an "Airy disk."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airy_disk

330px-Airy-pattern.svg.png


There are a couple of fourmulas and "limits" as to how to characterize the resolving power of a telescope: namely the Rayleigh criterion and the Dawes' limit, which both describe the same sort of thing.

This diffraction limit is the best it can get. Other imperfections (atmospheric aberrations, optical aberrations, sensor limitations, etc., only make it worse. But just know that space telescopes such as Hubble (HST) and James Webb (JWST) are pretty darned close to being diffraction limited. Larger, Earth based telescopes that employ adaptive optics can also get pretty close. Even my backyard telescope, when imaging brighter planets such as Venus, Mars and Jupiter, can get surprisingly close to its diffraction limit when employing lucky imaging techniques.

So, to your original question: Do you need Feynman's paths to show this? No. All you need is the wave theory of light (i.e., light is a wave), and some physics courses. You can sufficiently derive all of this with first year physics course that touches on diffraction theory. (Although if you wanted to derive the full shape of the Airy disk, it requires knowledge of Bessel functions, so there's some math involved.)

That said, you can use quantum electrodynamics (QED) explain diffraction, if you really wanted to. The classical solutions will match the quantum. I'm just saying that it's not necessary to use the quantum approach. It would be like trying to kill a mosquito with a rocket propelled grenade. It might work, but it's overkill.
 
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Thanks for your detailed response. I should have remembered some of it from my undergrad days - but that was a long time ago :smile:
 
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And thank you Bandersnatch for the saturation/blooming explanation.
 
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