Slight deviation of proof, would it be correct for integers? Review for exam

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof related to the properties of integers and irrational numbers, specifically examining whether a proof that holds for rational numbers also applies when the variables are restricted to integers.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to modify a proof involving rational numbers to apply to integers, seeking validation of their reasoning. Some participants question the necessity of the proof's structure when transitioning from rational to integer cases.

Discussion Status

Participants are engaging in a constructive dialogue, with some expressing agreement on the validity of the proof's adaptation. Others provide alternative perspectives on the proof's presentation and the underlying mathematical principles.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the original proof's context and the transition from rational to integer cases, which raises questions about the assumptions involved in such a change. The discussion also reflects on the nature of rational numbers and their properties.

mr_coffee
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Hello everyone.

He told us he could of course change the parameters which he will of the proofs we have been working on so I'm testing out some cases but I want to make sure I'm doing it right.

Here is an example of a proof the boook had:
http://suprfile.com/src/1/3qaagxh/Untitled-1%20copy.jpg


Now where he has the statement: "If a and b are rational numbers..."
I'm changing that to:
"If a and b are integers..."
and now here is my proof, i think its correct but I have to make sure.

If a and b are integers, b != 0, and r is an irrational number, then a+ br is irrational.


Proof by Contradiction:

Suppose not. Suppose that a and b are integers, b != 0, and r is an irrational number such that a+br is rational. We must obtain a contradiction.

Since a, b are integers and a + br are rational, a+br = m/n for some integers m, n with n != 0.

Then

a + br = m/n

br = m/n - a
r = (m-an)/bn

where (m-an) and (bn) are integers since m, a, n, and b are integers, and bn is nonzero since b is nonzero. Therefore, r is rational, contradicting that r is irrational.

Thanks!
 
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looks good to me. are you using the book my solow? btw, you you go to UPark?
 
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I'm using Discrete Mathematics with appplications 3rd by Susanna S. Epp, and yeah i go to Penn State UPark. CSE260 is the class, hah how did you know.
 
just a guess/facebook/google(thinkquest contest). many of my friend go there.
 
yeah this place is pretty massive, well thanks for the help! I seem to post all questions but don't answer any hah. I did do thinkquest along time ago... I'm supprised that site is still up! well ttyl
 
Since all integers are rational numbers, once you had proven it for a, b rational, exactly the same proof must hold for a, b integer. Actually, I wouldn't have written the rational numbers as fractions, i/j, etc. It is sufficient to use the fact that the rational numbers are closed under addition and multiplication:
Suppose a+ br, a, b rational b non-zero, is rational: a+ br= c where c is rational. Then br= c- a so r= (c-a)(1/b). Since b is a non-zero rational number 1/b is rational and so r= (c-a)(1/b) is rational- contradiction.
 
That does seem a lot nicer, thanks!
 

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