Why is snow causing train delays and who should be held accountable?

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Overnight we had 1 inch of snow : hurrah snow ball fight!

But low and behold this morning the trains were all late, does anyone else have this problem, in my country if there are leaves on the line, the entire rail network cannot function?

We get all the excuses, it was the wrong type of snow, the leaf blowers couldn't get out in time to blah, blah. I was an hour late for work this morning, because the companies making huge profits don't seem to see the need to invest in de-icers etc.

What do you think: is this the responsibility of the rail company who's just incidently raised prices way above inflation, or should we just put up with a crappy service? After all the shareholders are happy.

 

[Beautiful Mess]

Yea exactly the same here! I live in london (uk). where do you live?
I hate it so much when the trains mess up because i take them to get to school, and it takes me 45minutes as it is with the 20mins on the train, when they arent working we have to take extra buses which can take up to an hour!
I think we should get the rail company to do something about it, it's deffinitely their responsibility. We should never have let them privatise the train lines and other public transports.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Portsmouth(UK) I noticed their were signal problems coming from london today particularly London Victoria, as well as the obvious catastrophe that a thin layer of snow and cold weather causes, it's a real annoyance, especially after the price hike, invest in some cold weather measures please. Instead of giving you CEO's masssive wage hikes.

 

[Cyrus]

Silly Brits. You all should be driving SUV's.

More global warming = no train delays.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Silly Brits. You all should be driving SUV's.

More global warming = no train delays.

I think I made my point clear about how I feel about SUV's on the other thread This year has been so warm this is the first time it's fallen close to or below freezing in my neck of the woods.

 

[cristo]

We get all the excuses, it was the wrong type of snow, the leaf blowers couldn't get out in time to blah, blah. I was an hour late for work this morning, because the companies making huge profits don't seem to see the need to invest in de-icers etc.

My favorite excuse I was given for the cancelling of the train service was "I'm sorry, sir, but the wrong type of leaves have fallen on the line." I didn't know there existed such a thing as a type of leaf!

Also, whenever it gets cold in Manchester, then trams stop running and their excuse is that the power lines have frozen!

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

My favorite excuse I was given for the cancelling of the train service was "I'm sorry, sir, but the wrong type of leaves have fallen on the line." I didn't know there existed such a thing as a type of leaf!

Also, whenever it gets cold in Manchester, then trams stop running and their excuse is that the power lines have frozen!

I'll never forget the time they had a rather unexpected over night leaf accumulation, the train was trying as hard as it could to move, but because the leaves had reduced the traction so much we ended up going at 5-10mph for most of the journey.

 

[Danger]

Bloody hell, you guys are wimps! If we get just one inch of snow in Alberta, we go on a picnic.

 

[ranger]

Bloody hell, you guys are wimps! If we get just one inch of snow in Alberta, we go on a picnic.

Thats telling 'em

 

[turbo]

Bloody hell, you guys are wimps! If we get just one inch of snow in Alberta, we go on a picnic.

Really! If we get one inch of snow, it's time to get out in the garden and plant the garlic. I you wait until there's a foot or more, you may have missed garlic-planting time.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Really! If we get one inch of snow, it's time to get out in the garden and plant the garlic. I you wait until there's a foot or more, you may have missed garlic-planting time.

Tell that to the rail companies, apparently it creates chaos? I love snow, but the trials of transport I could do without.

Daffodils isn't it

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

Really! If we get one inch of snow, it's time to get out in the garden and plant the garlic. I you wait until there's a foot or more, you may have missed garlic-planting time.

Man you are really procrastinating on your planting schedule, you put garlic in the ground during the first week of October (it snows here in November). Then cover the stuff after a good watering or two. It makes for a good root system in the fall so it has a head start in spring.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Well I was reading an article in a London free newspaper and the Rail companies have said this often happens in extreme weather, apparently a light dusting of snow is considered extreme Also the underground said they were aware from the met office that temperatures could fall, but did not see the risk as great enough to do anything about it you're earning your 200 grand obviously, you just lost your company a few million in revenue, because you didn't think the meteorological office were right silly man.

 

[Beautiful Mess]

Bloody hell, you guys are wimps! If we get just one inch of snow in Alberta, we go on a picnic.

tell the english private train system. Onmy they really won't care because they're just in it to make as much money as they can, and they don't want to risk breaking one of their prehistoric trains because then they would have to spend money on new ones, when that money could be better off in their personal bank acounts.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

tell the english private train system. Onmy they really won't care because they're just in it to make as much money as they can, and they don't want to risk breaking one of their prehistoric trains because then they would have to spend money on new ones, when that money could be better off in their personal bank acounts.

Part of the problem at least with SW trains is the trains are so ridiculously expensive(the trains are leased from a separate body) We have to pay a resultantly high fare. So much for ecouraging people onto public transport, we have one of the most expensive in the world.

 

[Beautiful Mess]

yea lol, and then they tell us we should take public transport into central london rather than pay the £8 congestion charge, but if you are an adult comming from zone 6 then it costs the same or even more than that! so we might as well use the car.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

yea lol, and then they tell us we should take public transport into central london rather than pay the £8 congestion charge, but if you are an adult comming from zone 6 then it costs the same or even more than that! so we might as well use the car.

It's a conundrum alright

 

[Beautiful Mess]

they should do what they did in, san fransisco?, i can't remember exactly where, but they have a tram that is free, and runs over n under land. I need to look that one up again, i know i did it as a case study for geography last year. I know it doesn't crete noise pollution...

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

they should do what they did in, san fransisco?, i can't remember exactly where, but they have a tram that is free, and runs over n under land. I need to look that one up again, i know i did it as a case study for geography last year. I know it doesn't crete noise pollution...

Monorail!

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

http://www.freewebs.com/mypicturesandsht/simpsons%20monorail.gif

ala Simpsons

 

[ranger]

http://www.freewebs.com/mypicturesandsht/simpsons%20monorail.gif

ala Simpsons

Damn it, what didn't the Simpsons do?

 

[Moonbear]

Monorail!

That won't help. We have a little monorail type thing on campus, and every time it snows, it's closed and you have to take buses instead (or just decide it's not worth traveling to another campus that day).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The Oregon solution.

http://www.bigfoot4x4.com/images/bf5spec.jpg

 

[Beautiful Mess]

The Oregon solution.

http://www.bigfoot4x4.com/images/bf5spec.jpg

[/URL]

yea! that's the way to do it! Bendy buses in london would be more popular if they looked like that

 

[Delzac]

Maybe everyone should boycott the rail once in a while to wake them up.

 

[Beautiful Mess]

i can't do that i have to take the train to and from school everyday, there is no other way, its around 10miles from my house.

 

[cristo]

Maybe everyone should boycott the rail once in a while to wake them up.

That won't make the slightest bit of difference! I only take the train when there's absolutely no other way to travel (for example when I'm traveling a long way, and don't want to drive). I doubt that the train services will miss my fare a few times a year! And then you have the people who use trains to get to work/school/college. This camp of people have to use the trains, since there would be no other way for them to travel, and so it would be impossible for them to boycott the service.

SO, I doubt that boycotting the rail service will do anything. The public transport in this country needs to sort itself out though; especially if the government's thinking of bringing congestion charges to cities other than london.

 

[Chi Meson]

If you Brits came over here for a week to sample Amtrak, you would run back home and hug your railway and apologize profusely.

"I said nasty, terrible things. I was upset."

 

[Beautiful Mess]

lol i think i might just need to do that then.

 

[Kurdt]

The Oregon solution.

http://www.bigfoot4x4.com/images/bf5spec.jpg

[/URL]

Its the people in the wheels that propel it that you have to feel sorry for.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

If you Brits came over here for a week to sample Amtrak, you would run back home and hug your railway and apologize profusely.

"I said nasty, terrible things. I was upset."

Well the fact that no one ever uses it might be a deciding factor in why it's so crappy, you build it those foreign laborers die in great numbers, and then retreat to the automobile and what happens Ours is highly used, and highly expensive, it's not a crap system but it is way too expensive to encourage people to give up cars, in a country that is less than 1000 miles by x this is not really very clever. And the wrong sort of God on the line, is not making anyone feel any better, act of parliament might help.

 

[Astronuc]

Overnight we had 1 inch of snow : hurrah snow ball fight!

But low and behold this morning the trains were all late, does anyone else have this problem, in my country if there are leaves on the line, the entire rail network cannot function?

We get all the excuses, it was the wrong type of snow, the leaf blowers couldn't get out in time to blah, blah. I was an hour late for work this morning, because the companies making huge profits don't seem to see the need to invest in de-icers etc.

What do you think: is this the responsibility of the rail company who's just incidently raised prices way above inflation, or should we just put up with a crappy service? After all the shareholders are happy.

It's poor planning and poor management on the part of the railway company if they cannot meet the 'normal' seasonal challenges to their operations. That's why company have planners.

In the southern US, many areas, particularly cities are not used to snow. When I lived in Houston and it snowed 1 inch, the city was more or less paralyzed. It was dangerous to venture out on the freeways/highways, but then there are so many people who are inexperienced on slippery roads, that one risks being involved in an auto collision. The number of traffic accidents usually increases by an order of magnitude when it snows, or there is a light rain. Many drivers are so used to driving 70 mi/hr or greater and switching lanes frequently, they do not change to safer practices when traction is diminished.

 

[verty]

The problem (in the UK, in my opinion) with the trains is the unions because they push the prices to the limit.

 

[Chi Meson]

Well the fact that no one ever uses it might be a deciding factor in why it's so crappy, ...

No one uses it becuase it's so expensive because no one uses it because it's so expensive because no ne uses it because American railways have an entrenched mode of thinking: passenger trains lose money and must be discouraged.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

No one uses it becuase it's so expensive because no one uses it because it's so expensive because no ne uses it because American railways have an entrenched mode of thinking: passenger trains lose money and must be discouraged.

I see, so not being arsed to walk is a valid excuse too? In america walking 400 yrds to the shops is considered a sin?

I quite agree Astronuc. Don't seem to have this problem in Switzerland? I wonder why?

 

[Astronuc]

I actually use Amtrak when I travel to Washington DC. It's less expensive than car (I don't have to pay parking) or plane, and takes about the same amount of time. With the train, I don't have to drive, and I don't have to wait at airports.

I do wish the schedules were better. I think with greatly improved logistics, AMTRAK would actually make money.

 

[Chi Meson]

I actually use Amtrak when I travel to Washington DC. It's less expensive than car (I don't have to pay parking) or plane, and takes about the same amount of time. With the train, I don't have to drive, and I don't have to wait at airports.

I do wish the schedules were better. I think with greatly improved logistics, AMTRAK would actually make money.

The "Northeast Corridor" from Boston to Washington DC is evidently the only profitable section of Amtrak. I live in Mystic, CT, which is right on this railway line. It should be very convenient for us to take the train to Boston or to NYC, wouldn't you think? But it isn't! It is prohibitively expensive. To take our family to either city for a day is much more quickly and cheaply done by car. Heck, it would be cheaper to fly to either city.

And as far as walking...cheese! No one lives within 400 yds of "the shops" anymore. All the "shops" have closed down in favor or supermarkets that are always at least 5 miles away.

As soon as gasoline (that's petrol, mates) goes above $5 per gallon permanently, our SUV culture will finally die off. But our trains will probably still suck.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

The "Northeast Corridor" from Boston to Washington DC is evidently the only profitable section of Amtrak. I live in Mystic, CT, which is right on this railway line. It should be very convenient for us to take the train to Boston or to NYC, wouldn't you think? But it isn't! It is prohibitively expensive. To take our family to either city for a day is much more quickly and cheaply done by car. Heck, it would be cheaper to fly to either city.

And as far as walking...cheese! No one lives within 400 yds of "the shops" anymore. All the "shops" have closed down in favor or supermarkets that are always at least 5 miles away.

As soon as gasoline (that's petrol, mates) goes above $5 per gallon permanently, our SUV culture will finally die off. But our trains will probably still suck.

It's cheaper here to fly to Scotland than go by train? And this is in a country that makes huge profits from it's rail system, I think SW trains made something like 200 million last year. As I said though they passed these record savings over to the shareholders and then raised prices about 100% above inflation. Which considering the service isn't great is a complete rip off.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=410257&in_page_id=2

My mistake only 137 million, hard times for them.

South West Trains profits soar to £137m
Robert Lea, Evening Standard
28 June 2006

PROFITS at South West Trains have soared by a staggering 38% over the past year.

Britain's biggest train franchise, running on the busiest commuter route in Europe, racked up profits of £137.3m in the year to the end of April against £99m the previous year.

Waterloo-based SWT is making so much money that current operator Stagecoach last year paid back £66.7m in excess profit to the Treasury, up from £46m the previous year.

The profit boom also enabled Stagecoach to quadruple to £11.7m the amount it has spent in the past year trying to retain the upforgrabs SWT franchise and put in bids to win new franchises.

That left Stagecoach itself banking profits from SWT of £58.9m-in the year, up 18% on the previous 12 months.

'A good operational performance leads to good financial performance,' said chief executive Brian Souter. 'We have managed costs tightly, pushed revenues up 5.7%, and that has been coupled with an improvement in the performance of the tracks under Network Rail.'

Commuters wondering whether they might get a cut in fares as a result of the SWT profits boom will get short shrift from Souter.

'These profits are a function of the incentive regime in which we work. If we deliver a good railway, then we get better profits,' he said. 'That is a concept with which our customers are comfortable.'

The bonanza on SWT is in stark contrast to the financial performance of Virgin Trains, in which Stagecoach has a 49% stake.

Profits from the West Coast services out of Euston and national intercity business Virgin Cross-Country plummeted 50% to £11m.

That fall is a function of the tight management contracts imposed on the business by the Department for Transport for previous poor performance.

The CrossCountry services have been put up for tender - with Virgin re-bidding - while the group is currently in negotiations with the DfT to put the West Coast on a new incentives regime.

The rail businesses and the sprawling countrywide bus businesses sent underlying profits at Stagecoach up by 7% to £140m-while the dividend is increased by 13% to 2.6p.

A quarter of that payout is picked up by Souter and his sister Ann Gloag.

•The £4bn train leasing market has been accused of being unfair and uncompetitive. The Department for Transport, on the recommendation of the Office of the Rail Regulator, today launched an inquiry into the market dominated by just three rolling stock operating companies, all of which are currently owned by banks.

The DfT said more than £1bn in leasing payments are made to the banks annually.

'It is important those contracts represent good value as the ultimate cost is borne by the Government or fare payers,' it added.

 

[Beautiful Mess]

Its the people in the wheels that propel it that you have to feel sorry for.

or maybe its run by giant hamsters

 

[Astronuc]

The "Northeast Corridor" from Boston to Washington DC is evidently the only profitable section of Amtrak. I live in Mystic, CT, which is right on this railway line. It should be very convenient for us to take the train to Boston or to NYC, wouldn't you think? But it isn't! It is prohibitively expensive. To take our family to either city for a day is much more quickly and cheaply done by car. Heck, it would be cheaper to fly to either city.

And as far as walking...cheese! No one lives within 400 yds of "the shops" anymore. All the "shops" have closed down in favor or supermarkets that are always at least 5 miles away.

As soon as gasoline (that's petrol, mates) goes above $5 per gallon permanently, our SUV culture will finally die off. But our trains will probably still suck.

I have much the same experience with our 'local' rail service. It's cheaper for me (and certainly my family) to drive to NYCity (midtown Manhattan), which is about ~80 mi (128km), and park.

The problem with railroad is the high infrastructure cost which requires high utilization to be economical. Another major factor is logistics - and I typically find poor logistics.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

or maybe its run by giant hamsters

It's the rail pixies I feel sorry for, now that's no life and their union sucks.

Update this morning, late for work, fair enough major engineering works going on going to be a bit of a problem 'til their finished so ten minutes here or there is fine. I get into Southampton(the source of all of the Evil in the UK) And where I work and I have to wait half an hour for a bus, supposed to be every ten minutes, post rush hour about 9 to half 9, I get on and then when I'm getting off three buses of the same number pull up, obviously the traffic was so bad at rush hour that the busses all got concertinad together by the rush hour? Can anyone see where this is going, so the problem is what? to many cars on the road, the will of God? Yeah if more people used the trains, ie they were cheap and reliable... etc,etc,etc.

 

[jtbell]

In the southern US, many areas, particularly cities are not used to snow. When I lived in Houston and it snowed 1 inch, the city was more or less paralyzed. It was dangerous to venture out on the freeways/highways, but then there are so many people who are inexperienced on slippery roads, that one risks being involved in an auto collision.

Same here in South Carolina. It's a beautiful clear sunny morning right now, but there's a "winter storm watch" in effect for all of upstate SC and western NC, with snow, sleet and/or freezing rain predicted to start early tomorrow. If this forecast holds up, we'll probably cancel classes for tomorrow morning, at least. Although most of our students live on campus or right next to it, most of the faculty and staff have to drive here, many of them from other cities. (I'm an exception... it's about a ten-minute walk between home and my office.)