Solving a Simple Equation with Four Solutions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the polynomial equation z4 - 6z2 + 1 = 0, which is expected to yield four solutions. Participants are exploring the methods to find these solutions without relying on computational tools.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to solve for z2 and expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their approach. Some participants clarify that further steps are needed to find z from z2. There is a suggestion to simplify the expression for z and to explore alternative methods for finding the roots.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and corrections regarding the approach to solving the equation. There is recognition of the need to derive the roots explicitly and suggestions for methods to achieve this, indicating a productive direction in the conversation.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraint of not using computational tools like Wolfram Alpha to find the roots, which influences their approach to the problem.

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Homework Statement



##z^4-6z^2+1=0##

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



##z^{2}=\frac{6\pm \sqrt{36-4}}{2}=3\pm 2\sqrt{2}##. Now this has to be wrong already yet I don't know why..

Wolfram gives me some solutions ##1+\sqrt{2}##, ##1-\sqrt{2}##, ##-1+\sqrt{2}##, ##-1-\sqrt{2}##...

Now how can I find them without wolfram alpha?
 
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skrat said:

Homework Statement



##z^4-6z^2+1=0##

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



##z^{2}=\frac{6\pm \sqrt{36-4}}{2}=3\pm 2\sqrt{2}##. Now this has to be wrong already yet I don't know why..
No, it's fine. Note that you have solved for ##z^2##, not ##z##. If the goal is to solve for ##z##, you need to do some more work. Start with one of your solutions, say ##z^2 = 3 + 2 \sqrt{2}##. There are two values of ##z## that satisfy this equation, namely ##z = \pm \sqrt{3 + 2 \sqrt{2}}##. Note that this expression can be simplified. Indeed, ##(1 + \sqrt{2})^2 = 3 + 2 \sqrt{2}##, so ##\sqrt{3 + 2 \sqrt{2}} = 1 + \sqrt{2}## is one solution. See if you can find the other solutions. There should be four since the original polynomial ##z^4 -6z^2 + 1## has degree 4.
 
jbunniii said:
Indeed, ##(1 + \sqrt{2})^2 = 3 + 2 \sqrt{2}##,

See, I couldn't see that. Now It is obvious. Thanks!
 
Your original question asked how to get the roots without Wolfram. Once you know that you have $$
z=\pm\sqrt{3+2\sqrt 2}$$it is easy enough to verify that ##z=1+2\sqrt 2## works, but it's another thing to find that form in the first place. You might find it instructive to set$$
(a+b\sqrt 2)^2 = 3+2\sqrt 2$$square both sides, and solve for ##a## and ##b##.
 

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