Solving Enthaply by other ways?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of enthalpy change (dH) for an ideal gas undergoing an adiabatic expansion at constant pressure. Participants explore various methods for calculating dH and express confusion regarding the consistency of results obtained through different approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents calculations for work (w), change in internal energy (dE), and change in enthalpy (dH) using different methods, noting discrepancies in results.
  • Another participant questions the compatibility of an adiabatic process with constant pressure, seeking clarification on the definitions involved.
  • A third participant clarifies that while the external pressure is constant, the process can still be adiabatic, implying that internal energy and temperature will change as the gas expands.
  • Concerns are raised about the relationship between dH and q at constant pressure, with one participant suggesting that if q=0, then dH should also equal zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the process (adiabatic vs. constant pressure) and the implications for calculating dH. There is no consensus on the correct method for calculating dH or the validity of the assumptions made.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved the apparent contradictions in their calculations or the definitions of the thermodynamic processes involved. The discussion highlights the complexity of applying thermodynamic principles in this context.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in thermodynamics, particularly those exploring the nuances of enthalpy calculations and the implications of different thermodynamic processes.

fubear
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2 moles of an ideal gas at 300K and 5 bar is expanded adiabatically at a constant pressure of 1 bar till the volume doubles. Cv = 3R/2. Calculate w, q, dE, dH and change in T.

I found that w = dE = -997.78J

In class we solved dH by:

dH = CpdT = -1.66kJ

(we found Cp by Cp=Cv+nR ; we found dT by Cv=dE/dT)


I was wondering if we could solve dH another way:
dH = dE + d(PV)

However, I get a different answer..
dH = dE + Pext dV (because pressure is constant)
dH = -997.78J +-997.78J (because Pext dV is work)
dH = -2.00 kJ

I also tried another way:
dH = dE + d(nRT)
dH = -977J + (2mol)(8.3145J/K)(-80K)
dH = -1.08kJ

I am not getting the same value for each of the different ways I am using... Am I doing something wrong or am I not allowed to solve dH using the other methods?

Also, at constant pressure, isn't dH = qrev.. and q=0, so shouldn't dH = 0?


Thank you
 
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fubear said:
2 moles of an ideal gas at 300K and 5 bar is expanded adiabatically at a constant pressure
It is adiabatic or at constant pressure? How can be both?
 
The external pressure is constant, but the system undergoes an adiabatic process
 
I'm with nasu here. If the gas expands adiabatically pushing out a piston, then it will do work pushing out the piston, and its internal energy will fall. So, therefore, will its temperature, and its pressure (since P = nRT/V and T goes down and V goes up).
 

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