Solving Integral Equation: Analytical & Numerical Solutions

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an integral equation involving two variables, x and y, with constants c1, c2, and c3. Participants explore whether an analytical solution exists or if numerical methods are required.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants suggest treating the variables of integration as dummy symbols to clarify the problem. Others discuss the implications of the integrals being functions of their respective variables, questioning the equality of the two sides of the equation.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing detailed transformations and substitutions to simplify the integrals. There is a recognition of the complexity involved, and while some progress has been made, there is no explicit consensus on the best approach yet.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the roles of x and y in the integral equation, as well as the nature of the integrals themselves. The original poster seeks clarity on the possibility of analytical versus numerical solutions.

Methavix
Messages
35
Reaction score
1
hi all, i have the following integral equation to solve:

.y......x
./....../
| [1/(c1-c2*y)]dy = | [1/(1-x^2/c3^2)]dx
/....../
0......0

where c1, c2, c3 are constants.

Can I solve it analytically? If not, how can i dot to find the function x(y) or y(x)? Otherwise, does it exist an approximated way to find the analytical solution? Can I solve it only numerically?

Thanks
Luca
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think maybe you are being confused because the x and y are appearing both as limits of integration and as the variables of integration. The variables of integration are dummy symbols. If you just perform the integrations its then easy enough to solve for y(x).
 
In other words, treat it as
[tex]\int_0^y \frac{1}{c_1- c_2t}dt= \int_0^x \frac{1}{1- \frac{s^2}{c_3^2}} ds[/tex]

If what you have written is really the problem, then the left side of the equation is a function of y only and the right hand side is a function of x only. The only way they can be equal is if they are each equal to the same constant:
[tex]\int_0^y \frac{1}{c_1- c_2t}dt= A[/itex]<br /> and<br /> [tex]\int_0^y \frac{1}{1- \frac{s^2}{c_3^2}}ds= A[/tex]<br /> <br /> However, as Dick said, those aren't really "integral equations"- there is no variable occurring inside the integral other than the dummy "variable of integration". In particular, those two integrals are NOT constant and so can't be equal! Something doesn't make sense.<br /> <br /> Editted after looking at benorin's solution: My last paragraph is wrong because y is a function of x- what I said is only true if x and y are independent variables. Sorry.[/tex]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Methavix said:
hi all, i have the following integral equation to solve:

[tex]\int_{0}^{y}\frac{dY}{c_1-c_2Y}=\int_{0}^{x}\frac{dX}{1-\frac{X^2}{c_3^2}}[/tex]​

where c1, c2, c3 are constants.

Can I solve it analytically? If not, how can i dot to find the function x(y) or y(x)? Otherwise, does it exist an approximated way to find the analytical solution? Can I solve it only numerically?

Thanks
Luca

For the lefthand-side, substitute [tex]u=c_1-c_2Y\Rightarrow -c_2dY[/tex] so that [tex]0\leq Y\leq y\Rightarrow c_1\leq u\leq c_1-c_2y[/tex] and the integral becomes

[tex]\int_{0}^{y}\frac{dY}{c_1-c_2Y}=-\frac{1}{c_2}\int_{c_1}^{c_1-c_2y}\frac{du}{u}=-\frac{1}{c_2}\left[\ln |u|\right]_{u=c_1}^{c_1-c_2y}=\frac{1}{c_2}\ln\left|\frac{c_1}{c_1-c_2y}\right|[/tex]​

and for the righthand-side substitute [tex]u=\frac{X}{c_3} \Rightarrow \frac{1}{c_3}dX[/tex] so that [tex]0\leq X\leq x\Rightarrow 0\leq u\leq \frac{x}{c_3}[/tex] and the integral becomes

[tex]\int_{0}^{x}\frac{dX}{1-\frac{X^2}{c_3^2}}=c_3\int_{0}^{\frac{x}{c_3}}\frac{du}{1-u^2}[/tex]​

using partial fractions we have

[tex]=\frac{c_3}{2}\int_{0}^{\frac{x}{c_3}}\left(\frac{1}{u+1}-\frac{1}{u-1}\right) du=\frac{c_3}{2}\left[\ln |u+1|-\ln |u-1|\right]_{0}^{\frac{x}{c_3}} =\frac{c_3}{2}\left[\ln\left|\frac{u+1}{u-1}\right|\right]_{0}^{\frac{x}{c_3}}[/tex]
[tex]=\frac{c_3}{2}\ln\left|\frac{\frac{x}{c_3}+1}{\frac{x}{c_3}-1}\right|-\ln 1 = \frac{c_3}{2}\ln\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|[/tex]​

hence the final equation is

[tex]\frac{1}{c_2}\ln\left|\frac{c_1}{c_1-c_2y}\right|= \frac{c_3}{2}\ln\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|[/tex]​

I will solve for $y(x)$ (a little easier):

[tex]\ln\left|\frac{c_1}{c_1-c_2y}\right|= \frac{c_2c_3}{2}\ln\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|= \ln\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|^{\frac{c_2c_3}{2}}[/tex]

[tex]\left|\frac{1}{c_1-c_2y}\right|=\frac{1}{|c_1|}\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|^{\frac{1}{2}c_2c_3}[/tex]

[tex]\left|c_1-c_2y\right|=|c_1|\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|^{-\frac{1}{2}c_2c_3}[/tex]

[tex]c_1-c_2y=\pm |c_1|\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right| ^{-\frac{1}{2}c_2c_3}[/tex]

[tex]\boxed{y=\frac{c_1\mp|c_1|\left|\frac{x+c_3}{x-c_3}\right|^{-\frac{1}{2}c_2c_3}}{c_2} }[/tex]​
 
Last edited:
thank you very much
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K