Solving RLC circuit using differential equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an RLC circuit using differential equations, specifically focusing on the full response to a square wave input. Participants explore the application of Thevenin's theorem, the significance of the circuit components, and the implications of the square wave on the circuit's behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the application of Thevenin's theorem, particularly why the inductor is treated as a short circuit and the capacitor as an open circuit in this context.
  • There is a discussion on the labeling of circuit elements, with some participants clarifying that different labels may refer to the same components in different contexts.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the frequency of the source and its relevance to the circuit's response, particularly in relation to the time constant and settling time.
  • Some participants propose that the forced response could be zero due to the nature of the square wave input, while others challenge this assumption.
  • There is a mention of the time period of the square wave being greater than the settling time, which may affect the circuit's behavior.
  • Participants discuss the process of finding the Thevenin equivalent, including the steps to calculate the voltage and resistance in the circuit.
  • Questions arise about the significance of the time constant (tau) and its relationship to the frequency of the input voltage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the application of Thevenin's theorem, the treatment of the forced response, and the implications of the square wave input. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on several key points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the circuit's behavior under different input conditions and the dependence on definitions of terms such as "time constant" and "frequency." The discussion also highlights the complexity of applying phasor algebra to non-sinusoidal inputs like square waves.

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Homework Statement


upload_2016-11-20_22-52-39.png

Find the full response. Assume Vin is a squarewave with Vpp =10V and Vamp = +5V

Homework Equations


KCL

The Attempt at a Solution


My teacher gave this solution but I don't really understand some parts of it.

Full response = Natural response + forced response

Thevenin equivalent:
upload_2016-11-20_22-56-30.png

Rth = R1||R2
Vth = Vin * R2/(R2+R1)

Why is the Thevenin equivalent like this? Is it because the inductor acts like a short and the capacitor acts like an open circuit?

At node 1:
V1 = VC
Why is V1 = VC?
\frac{V_C-V_{th}}{R_{th}}+\frac{1}{L}*\int_{0}^{t}V_C (t)+C*\dot{V_C}
Move Vth/Rth to other side
\frac{V_C}{R_{th}}+\frac{1}{L}*\int_{0}^{t}V_C (t)+C*\dot{V_C}=\frac{V_{th}}{R_{th}}
Take the derivative of every part to get rid of integral
\dot{\frac{V_C}{R_{th}}}+\dot{(\frac{1}{L}*\int_{0}^{t}V_C(t))} +\dot{C*\dot{V_C}}=\dot{\frac{V_{th}}{R_{th}}}
Simplify
\dot{\frac{V_C}{R_{th}}}+{\frac{V_C}{L}}+C*\ddot{V_C}=\dot{\frac{V_{th}}{R_{th}}}
\ddot{V_C}+\dot{\frac{V_C}{R_{th}C}}+\frac{V_C}{LC}=\dot{\frac{V_th}{R_{th}C}}

Natural response: \ddot{V_N}+\dot{\frac{V_N}{R_{th}C}}+\frac{V_N}{LC}=0

Forced response: V_F=0
Why is Forced response 0?
What is the significance of Vin being a squarewave? How will this affect the final answer?
Would the full response to this problem simply be the Natural response, as Vf = 0?
 

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eehelp150 said:
Why is the Thevenin equivalent like this? Is it because the inductor acts like a short and the capacitor acts like an open circuit?
Inductor and capacitor are together considered as a load here. So, the Thevenin equivalent will be the equivalent of two resistors and the voltage source.
eehelp150 said:
Why is V1 = VC?
VC−VthRth+​
Because V1 is the potential at node A.
Why have you labelled each element twice? (Source voltage is V1 and V, capacitance is C1 and C..)
In this expression, V1 is the potential of node 1, assuming the -ve terminal of the source to be at ground potential (reference node).
What is the frequency of the source?
 
cnh1995 said:
Why have you labelled each element twice? (Source voltage is V1 and V, capacitance is C1 and C..)
I think C1 is the name of the device and C is the capacitance, etc.

And http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-10/thevenins-theorem/ is usually applied to DC circuits. Apparently (if the Thevenin equivalent was provided by teacher) L1 and C1 are considered the load for that circuit ?
 
BvU said:
And http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-10/thevenins-theorem/ is usually applied to DC circuits.
It works for any signal, including ac and dc. But calculations for ac signal are easy because of the specially derived phasor algebra for sinusoidal waveform.
Square wave is a sum of infinite sinusoids, so I think phasor algebra doesn't work.

I think the time period of the square wave is greater than the settling time of this circuit and hence, frequency is not mentioned. The circuit is assumed to be in steady state at the end of each half cycle, thus making the forced response i.e.Vc=0.
 
cnh1995 said:
Inductor and capacitor are together considered as a load here. So, the Thevenin equivalent will be the equivalent of two resistors and the voltage source.
What would be the "process" of "thevenizing" this circuit?
cnh1995 said:
Because V1 is the potential at node A.
Why is it Vc and not Vl or Vr?

cnh1995 said:
Why have you labelled each element twice? (Source voltage is V1 and V, capacitance is C1 and C..)
V1 is the name, V is just something LTspice adds

cnh1995 said:
In this expression, V1 is the potential of node 1, assuming the -ve terminal of the source to be at ground potential (reference node).
What is the frequency of the source?
We are to calculate the frequency of the source so that the capacitor charges for 7tau and discharges for 7tau.
 
eehelp150 said:
What would be the "process" of "thevenizing" this circuit?
Remove the load i.e. L and C and calculate the volatge across the parallel resistor R. That would be the Thevenin's voltage. Thevenin resistance is the equivalent of the two resistors after "shorting" the voltage source.
eehelp150 said:
Why is it Vc and not Vl or Vr?
Vc=Vr=Vl but here, the forced response is the voltage across the capacitor and all the other quantities are represented in terms of Vc. You can take it as Vl in this case, but be consistent throughout.
eehelp150 said:
We are to calculate the frequency of the source so that the capacitor charges for 7tau and discharges for 7tau.
What's Tau? Is it the time period of the input voltage?
 
cnh1995 said:
What's Tau? Is it the time period of the input voltage?
Tau is the time constant of the circuit. My professor that once we find the forced response, we need to solve for the characteristic roots. The smallest characteristic root is the time constant. Afterwards:
\frac{T}{2}=7\tau\rightarrow T=14\tau\rightarrow f=\frac{1}{T}\rightarrow f=\frac{1}{14\tau} or \frac{characteristic root}{14}
 

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