Solving Transimpedance Circuit: Find k in Terms of R1, R2, and Rf

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the relationship between output voltage and input current in a transimpedance circuit, specifically finding the proportionality constant k in terms of resistances R1, R2, and Rf. The context includes both theoretical derivation and practical application through simulation.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) derives an expression for k as k = -(R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) / R2 based on the circuit analysis.
  • Some participants suggest checking the calculated current value, which the OP states is 9.998nA, while they expect it to be 1nA.
  • One participant proposes a star-triangle transformation to simplify the circuit analysis, suggesting that it could lead to a more straightforward calculation.
  • Another participant notes that the OP's derived expression for k appears correct, indicating that the issue may lie in the units used (nA versus pA).
  • The OP later expresses a realization about their repeated mistake and indicates a new calculated current of 9.99exp-10, suggesting they may have resolved their confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the source of the discrepancy in the current calculations, as participants offer different suggestions and approaches to the problem. The discussion includes both agreement on the correctness of the derived expression for k and ongoing uncertainty regarding the numerical values obtained.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the calculations and the influence of unit conversions on the results. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to identify potential errors without resolving the underlying discrepancies in the numerical values.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners working with transimpedance circuits, particularly those interested in circuit analysis, simulation, and troubleshooting calculation errors.

WeeChumlee
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Homework Statement


The circuit of FIGURE 2 is known as a transimpedance circuit used
for the measurement of very small currents. Derive the relationship
between the output voltage V and the input current I; i.e. if V = kI
find k in terms of R1, R2 and Rf.
upload_2016-10-21_17-19-11.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


upload_2016-10-21_17-19-48.png

If current flows from left of Rf to right and V- is 0V then I is negative.

Then Vn (which is the voltage drop over Rf) = -IRfR2 and Rf in parallel have the resistance

R2Rf / (R2 + Rf)We now have a voltage divider:

Vn = {[(R2Rf / (R2 + Rf))] / [ R1 + R2Rf / (R2 + Rf)]} * Vout

Vn = R2Rf / (R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) * V
Vn =-IRf

I = -Vn/Rf

I = -[ R2Rf / (R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) * V ] / Rf

I = -R2V / (R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf)

I * (R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) = -R2V

V = -[ I * (R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) ] / R2V = kI

V / I =k

V / I = -(R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) / R2

k = -(R1(R2+Rf) + R2Rf) / R2

The next part states values:
Calculate the current I if Rf = 10 MΩ, R1 = 90 kΩ, R2 = 10 kΩ
and V –0.1 V.

I use these values and plug them into a SPICE program and see that somewhere I am out by a factor of 10.
I just can't find my mistake
upload_2016-10-21_17-23-26.png


If anyone can help I would be much obliged.

Thanks
 
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Hi WeeChumlee, Welcome to Physics Forums.

I think you want to check the size of your current source. What was your calculated value (in Amps)?
 
Calculated current was 9.998nA. (So 10nA)
This though should be 1nA . with 1nA the simulation works.
Somewhere is a factor 10 mistake I presume but I son,t see it.
 
WeeChumlee said:
Calculated current was 9.998nA. (So 10nA)
This though should be 1nA . with 1nA the simulation works.
Somewhere is a factor 10 mistake I presume but I son,t see it.
Can you show the details of your calculation? Let's try to spot the missing 10 :smile:
 
Here is my recommendation (for a much shorter calculation):
If you place the resistor Rf very close to the common node of R1 and R2 you will see that these three resistors form a star network.
Hence, applying the star-triangle transformation the feedback circuit will be simplified because one of the new resistors is between opamp output and ground.
Hence, this resistor has no influence on feedback - and the remaining circuit looks very convenient (only two feedback resistors).
 
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LvW said:
Here is my recommendation (for a much shorter calculation):
If you place the resistor Rf very close to the common node of R1 and R2 you will see that these three resistors form a star network.
Hence, applying the star-triangle transformation the feedback circuit will be simplified because one of the new resistors is between opamp output and ground.
Hence, this resistor has no influence on feedback - and the remaining circuit looks very convenient (only two feedback resistors).
Yes that works. Another shortcut is to realize that the input current fixes the potential at the resistor junction node. Just write the node equation (KCL) and substitute the fixed potential for the node voltage. The only variables left are the current and the output voltage.

The OP did derive a correct expression for the proportionality constant, so I think the remaining issue will be related to the units used (nA versus pA for example...). I'd like to see the OP's actual calculation for k and subsequent calculation of the current for the given -0.1 V output.
 
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Oh man, I think I got it. Just did the same mistake over and over again somehow.
Getting a beer, leaving it alone for a while, and coming back seem to have done it.
Not got SPICE now but pretty certain I have it now.
Now have I = 9.99exp-10
That's the 10 I was looking for.
:-)
 
Yup! :smile:
 
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Thanks for your input, I really appreciate your thoughts.
Once I am quite certain what I now have is coorect I shall try the method mentioned as well.
Good thing you asked me to do the math again, I don't know how I got it wrong so many times.
 

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