Some questions about Noise and Power spectral Density

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around various aspects of noise in electrical components, particularly focusing on noise generation, power spectral density, and shot noise. Participants explore theoretical implications and practical applications related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether noise can be used as a generator, referencing the noise voltage formula Vn=\sqrt(4KTBR) in relation to noisy and ideal resistors.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on why power spectral density is divided by the load resistance (RL) when calculating power at RL, suggesting it relates to normalized voltage.
  • A participant raises a question about shot noise, debating whether increasing or decreasing DC current is more effective in reducing noise effects, citing conflicting information from a textbook.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the initial question and attempts to clarify the relationship between a noisy resistor and the voltage across two resistors in a circuit.
  • Another participant inquires why noise voltage from a noisy resistor cannot be used to bias a transistor connected to a second resistor, suggesting the use of high resistor values or bandwidth.
  • A later reply discusses the possibility of rectifying broadband noise at the second resistor to extract energy, contingent on the temperature difference between the two resistors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of confusion and uncertainty regarding the concepts discussed. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of using noise for biasing or the implications of shot noise, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the terminology and relationships between components, indicating potential limitations in understanding the underlying principles of noise and its applications.

baby_1
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Hello
I've got confused about some features of noise.
1)Can use noise a generator?
5162231000_1483604549.jpg

Well , if we have a noisy resistor and Ideal resistor why can't we use noise voltage according to noise voltage Vn=\sqrt(4KTBR)

2)why we divide power spectral density to RL( load) when we find power at RL?(it is a normalized voltage^2)?
3)for shot noise, it is better to decrease or increase DC current to reduce noise effect?because according to shot noise current I_{s}=\sqrt{2I_{dc}qBw} I understand we should reduce DC current to decrease noise current but in book text it has mentioned that we should reduce DC current to decrease noise voltage, which is correct and why?

Thanks in advance
 
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In your diagram there is heat flow from R1 into R2. (I'm also confused by noise)
 
Thanks Paul for your comment.
I have been confused so far:frown:
 
Part of the issue is I don't understand your question as worded. A noisy resistor is an ideal resistor with a series ideal voltage generator (i.e. the noise). The noisy resistor is (I assume) ##R1## since it is at ##T=1000K##. The noise voltage will appear divided across ##R1## and ##R2## where ##v1 = \frac{R1}{R1+R2}V_n## and ##v2=\frac{R2}{R1+R2}V_n##. Does this help?
 
Thanks Paul Colby for your explanation
Sorry if I explained my problem badly , As a matter of fact as you see we have a noise voltage across the R2 resistor that comes from R1 noise , So I want to know why we can't use this voltage to bias R2? for example if we change R2 with a transistor why It can't bias the transistor? (if we select a high resistor value or high bandwidth ?)

Thanks in advance
 
Well, in principle one could rectify the broadband noise at ##R2## supplied by ##R1## and extract energy. This is only possible because ##R2## is at a lower temperature than ##R1##. As I said, in this case there is heat flow. In this case power could be extracted. BTW this would be no different than running a photocell from the light of a fire. Only the transmission is through space rather than through a wire.

On the flip side. If the temperatures are the same, then the power flow is the same in both directions and no net power may be extracted.
 

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