Sound Waves (simple harmonic motion and pressure dilemma)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptual understanding of sound waves, specifically their relationship to simple harmonic motion (SHM) and pressure variations. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the phase relationships between displacement, velocity, and pressure in sound waves compared to SHM.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to reconcile the phase relationships in sound waves with those in simple harmonic motion, questioning the role of pressure variance and the source of force in the oscillation of air elements.
  • Some participants inquire about the type of simple harmonic motion being referenced and clarify the nature of restoring forces in different systems.
  • Others suggest that the net force on an air parcel is related to the pressure gradient rather than the acoustic pressure itself.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of forces in sound waves and their relation to simple harmonic motion. Some guidance has been offered regarding the distinction between pressure and pressure gradient, but no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

The original poster appears to be grappling with the implications of phase differences in sound waves and simple harmonic motion, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the underlying principles. The discussion includes references to specific equations and concepts from physics that may require further exploration.

Apophilius
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I've encountered a bit of a conceptual problem in my studies and I was hoping someone could help me out with this:

I understand that the longitudinal sound wave takes the form of the equation s(x,t) = smcos(kx +/- wt), and that the equation for pressure variance produced by the sound wave takes the equation p(x,t) = pmsin(kx +/- wt). I also understand that the velocity of an air element experiencing a wave can be found by taking the partial derivative of the s(x,t) equation with respect to whatever variable you feel like, and that the velocity will be out of phase from your pressure variance equation by pi radians. What I do NOT understand is this.

In simple harmonic motion (the kind of motion I understand a sound wave to be in) your acceleration and therefore your force is out of phase with displacement by pi radians, not velocity. At maximum displacement from equilibrium, you should experience your greatest acceleration and therefore your greatest force (since in simple harmonic motion, f = cx). With sound waves, however, you experience your greatest pressure at equilibrium, when your velocity is greatest - an idea counter-intuitive to the principles of simple harmonic motion.

Where I feel I've gone wrong is here: perhaps the pressure variance is not the force causing the air elements to oscillate, but if that were the case, where does the force come from?
 
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What kind of simple harmonic motion are you envisioning, a wave in a string?

In a spring-mass harmonic oscillator, would you agree that the restoring force is in phase with displacement due to Hooke's law?
 
olivermsun said:
What kind of simple harmonic motion are you envisioning, a wave in a string?

I'm speaking of sound waves specifically.

In a spring-mass harmonic oscillator, would you agree that the restoring force is in phase with displacement due to Hooke's law?

Well, I had figured the force would be out of phase by pi radians because the force is directed in the opposite direction of displacement (F = - Cx).
 
Sorry I misunderstood earlier.

It may be helpful to realize that the net force on an air parcel is not due to the acoustic pressure, but the pressure gradient.
(It actually is just like the example of a wave in a string, except there it's tension gradient).
 
Ah, right. Thank you.
 

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