Spacetime Interval: Is it Invariant Under Rotations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the invariance of the spacetime interval under rotations, exploring whether this property holds true in both inertial and non-inertial frames. Participants examine mathematical formulations and provide insights into the implications of different types of rotations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the spacetime interval is invariant under rotations, citing the invariance of the spatial part in 3D Euclidean space.
  • Others argue that the interval is not invariant for rotations involving angular velocity, suggesting that non-inertial frames require a different metric.
  • A participant emphasizes that to determine invariance, one should apply the transformation and check if it simplifies back to the original form.
  • Another participant claims that the spacetime interval is a scalar under any coordinate transformation due to its definition involving a covariant 2-tensor and contravariant tensors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the invariance of the spacetime interval under different types of rotations, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about inertial versus non-inertial frames, and the implications of angular velocity on the spacetime interval are not fully explored.

Kalidor
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I know that the spacetime interval is the same in coordinate system moving wrt each other at constant speed. But is it true that the spacetime interval is invariant under rotations? If so can you suggest a proof or post a link to one?
 
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The proper interval is

ds2 = -c2dt2 - (dx2 + dy2 + dz2)

and the spatial part is invariant under rotations ( as in 3D Euclidean) , so the whole thing is also.

dx' = cos(a)dx + sin(a)dy

dy' = -sin(a)dx + cos(a)dy

(dx')2 + (dy')2 = dx2 (cos(a)2+sin(a)2) + dy2(cos(a)2+sin(a)2) = dx2 + dy2
 
Last edited:
It is not invariant for a rotation with an angular velocity.
 
Meir Achuz said:
It is not invariant for a rotation with an angular velocity.
I thought the original question was just about inertial frames with spatial axes rotated relative to one another, not about non-inertial rotating frames. In a non-inertial frame the metric line element would have to be something different from ds2 = c2dt2 - (dx2 + dy2 + dz2)
 
Kalidor said:
I know that the spacetime interval is the same in coordinate system moving wrt each other at constant speed. But is it true that the spacetime interval is invariant under rotations? If so can you suggest a proof or post a link to one?
In general, to determine if it is invariant under some transformation simply apply the transformation and see if it simplifies back to the original form as shown by Mentz114.
 
Kalidor said:
I know that the spacetime interval is the same in coordinate system moving wrt each other at constant speed. But is it true that the spacetime interval is invariant under rotations? If so can you suggest a proof or post a link to one?

The proof is almost by definition.

The spacetime intervasl contains the metric which is a covariant 2-tensor, and two spacetime coordinate differentials, each of which are 1-contravariant tensors. So under the rules of tensor transformations, the spacetime interval is forced to be a scalar underr ANY coordinate transformation.
 

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