Speed of a cap when released from a pressure vessel

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the speed of a cap released from a pressure vessel, particularly focusing on the dynamics involved when the cap is under pressure. Participants explore various factors that influence the cap's velocity, including pressure, mass, and geometry of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests assuming an acceleration of ## A\Delta p /m##, where ##m## is the mass of the cap, but notes that the duration of pressure release (Δt) is crucial for estimating final speed.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the design of the cap, which is typically oval and secured internally, means it will remain in place until all pressure is released, complicating the dynamics of its release.
  • It is noted that various factors affect the final velocity of the cap, including its mass, surface area, and the geometry of the pressure vessel. The participant also raises the complexity of modeling the situation if the cap reaches the speed of sound in the escaping gas.
  • A proposed formula for calculating the velocity of the cap is presented, which incorporates the pressure, radius of the cap, and mass, leading to a specific numerical example based on assumed values.
  • Concerns are raised about the realism of the chosen values and the potential for the cap to spin, which could affect the pressure dynamics and surface area exposed to the pressure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the factors influencing the cap's speed and the complexity of modeling the situation. There is no consensus on a definitive approach or outcome, as various assumptions and conditions are acknowledged.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific system parameters, the assumptions made about pressure release dynamics, and the lack of clarity on how pressure decreases over time.

Benjamin2019
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hi,
Pressure vessels have caps on top of them. These caps are secured with tri clamps and if you need to remove them you have to make sure that the tank's pressure is released. If the tank is under pressure (say 10psi) and an operator removes the cap (A is known), what is the speed of the cap?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hello Benjamin, ##\quad## :welcome: ##\quad## !

For starters you can assume an acceleration of ## A\Delta p /m## with ##m## the mass of the cap.
To estimate final speed you have to estimate how long the ##\Delta p## lasts effectively. That isn't so clear cut and requires more detailed knowledge.
Manhole covers https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11534365/Explosion-shoots-manhole-cover-100-feet-into-air.html are a well known source of fatal accidents
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Benjamin2019 and russ_watters
Thank you for the quick reply. If Δt is known, what is the formula to find the speed?
 
Pressure vessels "cap" are not fitted to the outside, they are usually oval shaped and fitted internally with the clamps holding them up from inside against the vessel opening. So even if you undo the clamps with pressure inside the pressure will hold the "cap' in place till all pressure is released(by valve open etc).
 
Like others said, it really depends on the specific system. There are many factors that influence the final velocity of the cap, such as the mass of the cap, the surface area of the cap, how large the pressure vessel is and the overall geometry around the cap. On top of that, if the pressure is allowed to escape past the cap while it's accelerating (which I assume it would be), or the cap reaches the speed of sound in the pressurized gas, the process becomes more difficult to model.

I'm not entirely sure how sharply the pressure decreases as soon as some of the gas can escape, but for a rough estimate, we can assume that the pressure decreases linearly to 0 over Δt, which you've said is known.

The initial force on the cap is based on it's cross-sectional area and the pressure in the vessel. The formula for that is ##F = p * π * r^2##, where p is the pressure and r is the radius of the cap. The force also decreases linearly to 0 over Δt. Because the decrease in force is linear, this is equivalent to half of the initial force being applied the entirety of that time.

To get the velocity, all we have to do then is get the acceleration and multiply it by the amount of time the force is applied for: ##V = Δt * F/M##

Putting all that together, we get:
$$v = Δt * \frac {p * π * r^2} {2M},$$
where v is the final velocity, p is the pressure, r is the radius of the cap, and M is the mass of the cap.

Assuming a pressure of 10 psi (which is roughly 68.95 kPa) and a cap that weighs 10 kg and has a diameter of 50 cm, and assuming the pressure dissipates entirely in 50 ms, we get:

$$v = 0.05 * \frac {68500 * π * 0.5^2} {2 * 10} = 0.05 * \frac { 53772.5 } {2 * 10} = 134.43125 m/s ≅ 441 ft/s$$

Note that this doesn't consider other factors such as that the cap will likely begin spinning immediately, which both releases the pressure faster and decreases the affected surface area. I also don't know how realistic the values I picked are. :^)

To give you a better answer, I'd need to know more about the specific case you're working with.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K