Spivak Ch1, Q8: Deducing Basic Properties of Numbers

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around deducing the properties P10-P12 from the newly defined properties P'10-P13, which relate to inequalities and basic arithmetic operations. Participants clarify that the task is to demonstrate that the statements in P'10-P13 logically lead to the original properties P10-P12. Several proofs are presented, showing how to derive these properties using foundational arithmetic laws and inequalities. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding the implications of each property and the relationships between them. Ultimately, the goal is to establish a coherent connection between the properties of positive numbers and the broader set of real numbers.
Noxate
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Homework Statement


Although the basic properties of inequalities were stated in terms of the collection
P of all positive numbers, and < was defined in terms of P, this
procedure can be reversed. Suppose that P10-P12 are replaced by
(P'10) For any numbers a and b one, and only one, of the
following holds:
(i) a = b,
(ii) a < b,
(iii) b < a.
(P'11) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b and b < c, then
a < c.
(P'12) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b, then
a+c<b+c.
(P'13) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b and 0 < c, then
ac < bc.
Show that P10-P12 can then be deduced as theorems.

Homework Equations


Addition properties:

P1: (Associative law of addition) (a+b)+c=a+(b+c)
P2: (Existence of additive identity) a+0=0+a=a
P3: (Existence of additive inverse) a+(-a)=(-a)+a=0
P4: (Commutative law of addition) a+b=b+a

Multiplication properties:
P5: (Associative law of multiplication) a x (b x c)=(a x b) x c
P6: (Existence of multiplicative identity) a x 1=1 x a=a
P7: (Existence of multipliative inverse) a x a-1=a-1 x a=1 (If a is different from zero)
P8: (Commutative law of multiplication) a x b=b x a
Distributive property
P9: (Distributive law) a x (b+c)=(a x b)+(a x c)

Order properties:
Let P be called the collection of positive numbers, then:
P10: (Trichotomy Law) For every a, exactly one of the following happens: a=0, a is in P or -a is in P
P11: (Closure under addition) If a and b are in P, a+b is in P
P12: (Closure under multiplication) If a and b are in P, a x b is in P

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm really not entirely sure what the question is asking me to do. I believe it is asking me to show that P'10-P'13 are true from the properties P1-P9 and thus the statements in P10-P12 are also true.

Here is my attempt at doing that.

Starting with:

(P'12) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b, then
a+c<b+c.
From P3, if a<b, then a+(-b)<b+(-b)
-> a-b<0
Thus a-b+c-c<0
->(a+c)+(-b-c)<0
->(a+c)-(b+c)+(b+c)<0+(b+c)
->a+c<b+c
Thus we have deduced P'12

Now P'11:
(P'11) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b and b < c, then
a < c.

From P'12, a+c-b-c<0
->a+c-b<c
c-b>0, then (c-b)+a>0+a
thus a<a+c-b<c
Therefore we have deduced P'11.

I'm fairly confident in these 2, the next 2 are where I don't feel as though my proof is very good.

P'10:
(P'10) For any numbers a and b one, and only one, of the
following holds:
(i) a = b,
(ii) a < b,
(iii) b < a.

Using P7, if a<b then 1<b/a, which would mean 1<1 if a=b. From (P3) a+(-a)=0, thus b+a+(-a)=0+b. So 1<1 and 1=1 cannot both be true and thus if a<b then it can't also be true that a=b.

Similarly for b<a, then 1<a/b, implies 1<1 if a=b. So i cannot be true if either ii or iii are true. Lastly if b<a is true and a<b is true then both b-a<0 and a-b<0 would have to be true.

Assuming a>0 and b>0, then from P9, a(b-a)<0 and a(a-b)<0 are both true, thus -a^2+ab<0->a^2>ab and from a(a-b)<0 a^2<ab. a^2<ab<a^2 cannot be true unless a=0.

Similarly we can find that b^2<ab<b^2 would only be true if b=0. Thus if both ii and iii were true it would cause contradictions in 0=0 and 0<0 and a=b, which we've already established cannot be true. So i, ii and iii are exclusive and P'10 is true.

P'13.
(P'13) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b and 0 < c, then
ac < bc.

a<b->a-b<0<c. Using P9, c(a-b)<0<c(c)
-> ca-cb<0<c^2.
Then applying P3, ac-bc+bc<0+bc
-> ac<bc
Therefore we have deduced P'13.

For P10, since we've shown that either a=b, a<b or b<a. Then if a=0 clearly b<a or (-b)<a as b=/=a and one of either b<a or (-b)<a must be true. So any number x must either be a=0, a<0 or (-a)>0.

I believe I still must somehow show that P11 and P12 statements are true somehow and then from that I would simply state that the set P can represent all numbers a>0 or (-a)>o, if a<0.

That's basically what I got, again I'm not entirely sure that I've understood the question properly.
 
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Noxate said:

Homework Statement


Although the basic properties of inequalities were stated in terms of the collection
P of all positive numbers, and < was defined in terms of P, this
procedure can be reversed. Suppose that P10-P12 are replaced by
(P'10) For any numbers a and b one, and only one, of the
following holds:
(i) a = b,
(ii) a < b,
(iii) b < a.
(P'11) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b and b < c, then
a < c.
(P'12) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b, then
a+c<b+c.
(P'13) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b and 0 < c, then
ac < bc.
Show that P10-P12 can then be deduced as theorems.

Homework Equations


Addition properties:

P1: (Associative law of addition) (a+b)+c=a+(b+c)
P2: (Existence of additive identity) a+0=0+a=a
P3: (Existence of additive inverse) a+(-a)=(-a)+a=0
P4: (Commutative law of addition) a+b=b+a

Multiplication properties:
P5: (Associative law of multiplication) a x (b x c)=(a x b) x c
P6: (Existence of multiplicative identity) a x 1=1 x a=a
P7: (Existence of multipliative inverse) a x a-1=a-1 x a=1 (If a is different from zero)
P8: (Commutative law of multiplication) a x b=b x a
Distributive property
P9: (Distributive law) a x (b+c)=(a x b)+(a x c)

Order properties:
Let P be called the collection of positive numbers, then:
P10: (Trichotomy Law) For every a, exactly one of the following happens: a=0, a is in P or -a is in P
P11: (Closure under addition) If a and b are in P, a+b is in P
P12: (Closure under multiplication) If a and b are in P, a x b is in P

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm really not entirely sure what the question is asking me to do. I believe it is asking me to show that P'10-P'13 are true from the properties P1-P9 and thus the statements in P10-P12 are also true.
You're being asked to assume P1-P9 and P'10-P'13 are true and prove that P10-P12 follow as a consequence.

(P'12) For any numbers a, b, and c, if a < b, then a+c<b+c.
From P3, if a<b, then a+(-b)<b+(-b)
You can't say that a<b implies a+(-b) < b+(-b) because that implication is exactly what you're setting out to prove here.

But as I said, that's not what the problem is asking you to do anyway.
 
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