Stable, Neutrally Stable, and Unstable Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the stability of systems represented by differential equations, specifically focusing on the concepts of stable, neutrally stable, and unstable systems. Participants explore methods for solving differential equations and their implications for system stability, including the roles of homogeneous and particular solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the importance of the particular solution in determining system stability and questions whether plugging in infinity to the solution is a valid approach.
  • Another participant suggests using separation of variables for a specific differential equation but questions the applicability of the characteristic method for the problem at hand.
  • A later reply mentions that the characteristic method and Laplace Transforms are the primary methods being used in their current class, raising questions about the conditions under which the characteristic method is applicable.
  • Discussion includes the mention of poles and zeros in relation to stability, with one participant indicating they are unfamiliar with these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best methods for determining stability or the applicability of different solution techniques. There are multiple competing views on how to approach the problem, and uncertainty remains regarding the effectiveness of the characteristic method and the role of the particular solution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the conditions required for using certain methods, such as the characteristic method and separation of variables, particularly in relation to different types of differential equations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning about differential equations, particularly those interested in the concepts of stability and various solution methods.

jdawg
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Homework Statement


I'm having difficulty knowing how to determine if a given differential equation represents a stable, neutrally stable, or an unstable system. I was given a hint to focus on the homogeneous solution, so is the particular solution not important for determining if the differential equation represents a stable, neutrally stable, or an unstable system?

I think I'm supposed to plug in infinity to the solution to the DE, and if x(t) ends up going to infinity then it will be unstable? What result would make the system neutrally stable or unstable?

Also, when trying to solve for the particular solution, I was told to guess either a constant, x, or some polynomial depending on what the forcing function of the DE was. But looking at this example, I must be guessing incorrectly because it isn't making sense:

dx/dt = 3
the homogeneous solution:
memt=0 therefore m = 0:
xh(t)=Ce(0)t=C

So then when you try to solve for the particular solution, your forcing function is a constant, so you guess that it is equal to a constant:

xp=D
But the derivative of this is zero! so then when you go to plug the derivative back into your original equation, you get 0=3, which doesn't make sense. Maybe I'm missing something!

I hope my questions aren't too unorganized or confusing. Thanks for any help!

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 
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What methods have you learned, so far? There is a simple Calculus method for this particular one (dx/dt = 3).
 
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Haha oh wow, I can't believe I didn't think of doing separation of variables with this one. I've already taken DE, but that was about 2 years ago. In the class I'm taking now we only use the characteristic method and Laplace Transforms.

Does the characteristic method not work for this problem?
 
jdawg said:
Haha oh wow, I can't believe I didn't think of doing separation of variables with this one. I've already taken DE, but that was about 2 years ago. In the class I'm taking now we only use the characteristic method and Laplace Transforms.

Does the characteristic method not work for this problem?
Ha. It's been longer for me. I'm going to have to re-read about the characteristic.

Laplace should be pretty easy. Laplace can help with the stability question. Have you learned about poles and zeros? The location of the poles will determine stability of a system.
 
Yeah I'm not sure if there is some sort of condition that has to be met for you to be able to use the characteristic method? Cause I had two homework problems where it didn't seem to work. The other problem I had was a second order linear DE so I don't think I could use separation of variables with it :(

We just started relearning Laplace yesterday, so I'm pretty rusty with it. Poles and zeros don't sound familiar at all to me!
 

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