Steam generation thermodynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermodynamics of steam generation in a cylindrical tank, focusing on the mass flow rate of steam when heat is applied through coal combustion. Participants explore various scenarios involving the tank's conditions, such as vacuum states and temperature changes, while considering the implications of valve openings and pressure readings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the initial scenario is a homework problem, suggesting insufficient information to solve it.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the mass flow rate will depend on the size of the valve and outlet pipe, noting that it varies over time.
  • A participant clarifies that the problem is part of a senior project and invites assumptions to simplify the analysis.
  • Subsequent posts introduce a modified scenario where water is heated from 20°C to 120°C in a vacuumed tank, prompting questions about the mass of steam generated and the flow rate when the valve opens.
  • Participants discuss using energy conservation principles and control volume thermodynamics to analyze the situation, including expressions for energy in and out.
  • There is a focus on determining the amount of vapor generated after a certain time and how to maintain pressure while removing mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for assumptions to simplify the problem and on the application of energy conservation principles. However, there is no consensus on specific calculations or outcomes, as various approaches and interpretations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific assumptions about heat rates, the size of the valve and outlet, and the initial conditions of the system. The discussion also highlights the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in determining mass flow rates and steam generation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in thermodynamics, particularly those working on steam generation systems or related engineering projects.

Ali Ahmad
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a cylindrical tank with volume V
a volume of water is inside the tank and the rest is air
now if coal combustion is releasing heat into the tank Qin
and when the gauge reads a certain pressure "P", the valve is opened which allows steam to exit the boiler
what's the mass flow rate of the steam?
 

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Is this a homework problem?
 
The mass flow out will depend most strongly on the size of the valve and the outlet pipe. The flow rate will also vary with time.

If that is homework, there is too little information given to solve it.
 
anorlunda said:
The mass flow out will depend most strongly on the size of the valve and the outlet pipe. The flow rate will also vary with time.

If that is homework, there is too little information given to solve it.
I think they want him to assume that the rate of heating is constant.
 
this is a part of a senior project that I am working on.
you can assume anything to simplify it
assume it's a bachelor's degree level question
 
Ali Ahmad said:
this is a part of a senior project that I am working on.
you can assume anything to simplify it
assume it's a bachelor's degree level question
What is your analysis of this so far?
 
Ignore the previous question.
now let's say that the tank is vacuumed and has a volume "Vt", and the valve is closed
then a volume "Vw" of water at T1=20C is added to the tank
water is heated using an external heat source (coal combustion) until its temperature reaches T2=120C
what is the mass of steam generated in the tank, and when the valve is opened, what is the flow rate of steam? what is the pressure in the tank?
assume the cross-sectional area of the pipe is "Ap" and ignore heat losses
 
Ali Ahmad said:
Ignore the previous question.
now let's say that the tank is vacuumed and has a volume "Vt", and the valve is closed
then a volume "Vw" of water at T1=20C is added to the tank
water is heated using an external heat source (coal combustion) until its temperature reaches T2=120C
what is the mass of steam generated in the tank, and when the valve is opened, what is the flow rate of steam? what is the pressure in the tank?
assume the cross-sectional area of the pipe is "Ap" and ignore heat losses
What are your thoughts on how this would be approached?
 
after t seconds, the heat rate is:
Qdot = mw . (cp2 . T2 - cp1 . T1) / t
control volume thermodynamics
Ein - Eout = dE/dt (assuming steady)
Ein = Eout
Qdot = mout . u2 -------eq1
at T2=120C
P2=gauge pressure reading just before opening the valve
then from steam tables, we get u2 and substitute in eq1 to find mout
and how do I find the amount of vapor generated after t seconds?
 
  • #10
Is this what you are asking: I have water in a constant volume tank, and I am supplying heat at a constant rate. When the pressure gets to a certain value, I start removing mass at a rate necessary to hold the pressure at this constant value, while continuing to supply heat?
 
  • #11
yes
 
  • #12
The simplest solution makes use of energy conservation. Can you write expressions for the total energy in and the total energy out?
 
  • #13
Ali Ahmad said:
yes
Are you currently learning about the open system (control volume) version of the first law of thermodynamics?
 

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