Summing sinusoids of different frequency

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of combining sinusoids of different frequencies into a single sinusoidal function. Participants explore both general and specific cases, including the mathematical transformations involved and the implications of summing sinusoids with different frequencies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about combining sinusoids of the form Acos(2παt + φ) + Bcos(2πβt + χ) into a single sinusoid, expressing interest in both a general and a simpler case.
  • Another participant presents trigonometric identities to break down the components of the sinusoids but questions the utility of these identities in achieving the desired combination.
  • Some participants note that summing sinusoids of different frequencies can result in non-sinusoidal shapes, raising doubts about the feasibility of representing such sums as a single sinusoid.
  • There is a mention of the Fourier series, suggesting that while any repeating function can be expressed as a sum of sinusoids, the specific case of combining two into one remains uncertain.
  • One participant asserts that functions that are linearly independent cannot be summed into a single function, drawing an analogy with other mathematical functions.
  • Questions arise regarding the period of the sum of sinusoids with different periods, with some suggesting that the resulting waveform would have a period equal to the least common multiple (LCM) of the individual periods.
  • A later reply emphasizes that if the ratio of the periods is not a rational number, the sum will not be periodic, providing an example of a non-periodic function.
  • Finally, a participant states that two different pure sine wave frequencies cannot be summed to yield another pure sine wave frequency.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of combining sinusoids into a single sinusoidal function. While some agree that it is not feasible, others explore the mathematical implications and transformations without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the linear independence of functions and the implications of summing sinusoids of different frequencies, but do not resolve these issues.

funnyguy
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I'm curious if there is a way to combine sinusoids of multiple frequency into a single sinusoid?

For example, I'm looking for a way to combine:

Acos(2παt + φ) + Bcos(2πβt + χ) where A, α, φ, B, β, χ are scalar constants and α & β represent the frequency.

I'd even be interested in a less complex solution to:
cos(2παt) + cos(2πβt)
if this is much simpler than the general form above.

I found an incomplete explanation on here that does a transform and then recombines using complex numbers ending up with a cosine with an arctangent inside.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=372263

However, explanations of the process are probably better than just a discrete example alone.
 
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cos(a+ b)= cos(a)cos(b)- sin(a)sin(b)

cos(2\pi\alpha t+\phi)= cos(2\pi\alpha t)cos(\phi)- sin(2\pi\alpha t)sin(\phi) and
cos(2\pi\beta t+\chi)= cos(2\pi\beta t)cos(\chi)- sin(2\pi\beta t)sin(\chi)
 
HallsofIvy said:
cos(a+ b)= cos(a)cos(b)- sin(a)sin(b)

cos(2\pi\alpha t+\phi)= cos(2\pi\alpha t)cos(\phi)- sin(2\pi\alpha t)sin(\phi) and
cos(2\pi\beta t+\chi)= cos(2\pi\beta t)cos(\chi)- sin(2\pi\beta t)sin(\chi)

I don't think trig identities are going to be much help.

Acos(2παt + φ) + Bcos(2πβt + χ) = A(cos(2παt)cos(φ) - sin(2παt)sin(φ)) + B(cos(2πβt)cos(χ) - sin(2πβt)sin(χ))

Which has turned a sum of 2 sinusoids into 4 products and 3 summing operations on 8 sinusoids. This is kind of the opposite direction of where I was looking to go. I'm trying to figure out if there's a transformation I can use to get this all inside of a single sinusoid function, even if there is a trig function inside the sinusoid.
 
Summing sines of different frequencies can yield very NON sinusoidal shapes. Why do you expect to use a single sine function to describe non sine shaped functions?

i.e. The sum of all odd harmonics yields a square wave.
 
Integral said:
Summing sines of different frequencies can yield very NON sinusoidal shapes. Why do you expect to use a single sine function to describe non sine shaped functions?

i.e. The sum of all odd harmonics yields a square wave.

I don't expect to, I asked if it was possible.

I know it is possible to write any repeating function as a sum of sinusoids (Fourier?) but I was just curious if there is a process to combine a sum of 2 into 1. I'm mainly interested for representing purposes, I just wanted to see if there was a way to represent the sum mathematically without both sinusoids needing to be shown. Maybe it could be represented as a series?
 
Functions that are called linearly independent cannot be summed into a single one.

Sines of different frequencies are no different in this regard than trying to sum together, say, the functions Bz and Bz^2 into a SINGLE power in z.
 
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What about the period of the sum of sinusoids of different periods? What would that be?
 
LuizHP said:
What about the period of the sum of sinusoids of different periods? What would that be?
It would be a repeating waveform, of period equal to the LCM of their periods. Try some sketches and discover for yourself.
 
NascentOxygen said:
It would be a repeating waveform, of period equal to the LCM of their periods. Try some sketches and discover for yourself.
To give an example, if the ratio of the periods is not a rational number, the sum will not be periodic.
##f(x)=\sin(x) + sin(\pi x)## is not periodic.
 
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  • #10
The short answer is no. Two different pure sine wave frequencies can not be summed to another pure sine wave frequency.
 

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