Surface Element Conversion for Flux Through Uncapped Cylinder

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    Cylinder Flux
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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the flux through an uncapped cylinder using surface integrals. The original poster attempts to express the normal vector and the integrand in terms of parameters related to the cylinder's geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the expression of the normal vector and the integrand in terms of parameters t and h. There are questions about converting the surface element dS into terms of dt and dh, and whether the flux can be simplified to relate directly to surface area.

Discussion Status

Some participants suggest that the problem may be simpler than initially thought, indicating that the flux could be related to the surface area without needing complex conversions. Others express curiosity about how to handle more complicated cases, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the limits of integration for the parameters involved, and the discussion reflects uncertainty about the necessity of conversions in different scenarios.

RoyalFlush100
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Homework Statement


In the attached image.

Homework Equations


Gradient(x, y, z) * <f, g, h> = <fx, gy, hz>

The Attempt at a Solution


Because the cylinder's not capped, I know that all the flux will be in the radial direction. So, I can find a normal vector by finding the gradient of the cylinder: n = <2x, 0, 2z>/(2sqrt(x^2+z^2)) = <x, 0, z>/sqrt(x^2+z^2)

Now, I want to put this in terms of t (the angle) and h (y):
r(t, y) = <acos(t), h, asin(t)>
Where: y: (-2, 2) and t: [0, 2pi)

Now we can rewrite the integrand:
<acos(t)/sqrt(a), 0, asin(t)/sqrt(a)> * <acos(t)/sqrt(a), 0, asin(t)/sqrt(a)> dS
=(a^2cos^2(t) + a^2sin^2(t))/a dS
=a dS

Now, the only thing I'm confused by (assuming everything else is right), is what to do with dS. I know it needs to be put in terms of dt and dh (where I already have the limits of integration), but I am unsure of how to perform this conversion.
 

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Isn't the vector ## \vec{E }## of the field used in this flux equation simply a unit vector in the radially outward direction? If it is, (and I don't know that I should be giving you this much of the answer, but the problem is almost trivial), isn't the flux equal to the surface area?
 
Charles Link said:
Isn't the vector ## \vec{E }## of the field used in this flux equation simply a unit vector in the radially outward direction? If it is, (and I don't know that I should be giving you this much of the answer, but the problem is almost trivial), isn't the flux equal to the surface area?
I believe the answer should be a multiplied by the surface area, but I a unsure how to properly evaluate the integral, converting dS to be in terms of dt and dh.
 
RoyalFlush100 said:
I believe the answer should be a multiplied by the surface area, but I a unsure how to properly evaluate the integral, converting dS to be in terms of dt and dh.
You don't need to do any conversion. Surface area ## S=\pi a^2 h ##.
 
Charles Link said:
You don't need to do any conversion. Surface area ## S=\pi a^2 h ##.
Okay. Just curious though, how would I perform that conversion in a less trivial case?
 
Surface integrals in the general case can take much effort to evaluate. The problem, I think, was designed to keep it simple.
 
In the general case, where you have a surface parametrised by the two variables ##t## and ##s##, the directed surface element is given by
$$
\newcommand{\dd}[2]{\frac{\partial #1}{\partial #2}}
d\vec S = \vec n \, dS = \dd{\vec x}{t} \times \dd{\vec x}{s} dt\, ds,
$$
where ##\vec x## is the position vector (which on the surface is parametrised by ##t## and ##s##.
 
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