Sylvester's Criterion for Infinite-dimensional Matrices

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ilp89
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matrices
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the applicability of Sylvester's Criterion to infinite-dimensional matrices, exploring theoretical implications, definitions, and interpretations related to positive definiteness and principal minors. Participants consider both mathematical and topological aspects of the criterion in the context of infinite matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether Sylvester's Criterion holds for infinite-dimensional matrices without a clear definition of the determinant for such matrices.
  • Others argue that since Sylvester's Criterion requires determinants of principal minors, which are finite square matrices, it may still apply, albeit with an infinite number of minors to consider.
  • A participant suggests that if all principal minors are positive, the infinite matrix could be seen as the limit of positive definite matrices, leading to the conclusion that it is positive semi-definite.
  • Another participant raises the need for a topological framework to define limits meaningfully in this context.
  • One participant describes their specific problem involving an infinite matrix mapping a Banach space into itself, indicating that the matrix operator resides in a topological space.
  • A later reply outlines two interpretations of quadratic forms with infinite matrices, noting that under one interpretation, Sylvester's Criterion holds, while under another, it may only imply positive semi-definiteness rather than positive definiteness.
  • Examples are mentioned where all finite principal minors are positive, yet the quadratic form does not yield positive definiteness for certain non-zero vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Sylvester's Criterion to infinite-dimensional matrices, with no consensus reached on whether it holds universally or under specific conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of determinants for infinite matrices, the need for topological considerations, and the potential for multiple interpretations of quadratic forms involving infinite matrices.

ilp89
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Does Sylvester's Criterion hold for infinite-dimensional matrices? Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
ilp89 said:
Does Sylvester's Criterion hold for infinite-dimensional matrices? Thanks!



I can't see how unless one defines rationally the determinant of infinite matrices...

DonAntonio
 
Well, Sylvester's criterion only requires us to find determinants of the principal minors, which are all finite square matrices. There are just an infinite number of them.
 
ilp89 said:
Well, Sylvester's criterion only requires us to find determinants of the principal minors, which are all finite square matrices. There are just an infinite number of them.



If I remember correctly S.C. requires to find out ALL the principal minors' determinants, up to and including the whole determinant's...

DonAntonio
 
Yes, but isn't that just the natural way to word the condition in the finite-dimensional case? Does the proof actually use the fact that the entire matrix's determinant is positive or that the determinant is finite-dimensional?
 
I guess if all principal minors are positive, then the infinite matrix is the limit of positive definite matrices and is thus positive semi-definite.
 
ilp89 said:
I guess if all principal minors are positive, then the infinite matrix is the limit of positive definite matrices and is thus positive semi-definite.



The limit...in what sense? I think you may need some topology to have any chance of defining limit in some meaningful way.

DonAntonio
 
I guess I haven't really told you about the specific problem I'm working on. My infinite matrix is mapping a Banach space into itself, so the matrix operator itself lives in a Banach space, which has a topology.
 
But I think we've strayed from the initial question... Does anyone know if there's something similar to Sylvester's criterion for a countably infinite square matrix?
 
  • #10
The short answer is "it depends"

There are 2 main interpretations of the quadratic forms with infinite matrices:

The first one is that while we have infinite matrix, we only consider vectors with finitely many non-zero coordinates. The quadratic form is defined for all such vectors. In this case "positive definite" means that (A x, x)>0 for all non-zero vectors x with finitely many non-zero coordinates.

In this case the Silvester's criterion works, i.e. the form is positive definite if and only if all finite principle minors are positive.

The other interpretation of the quadratic form (A x, x) with infinite matrix A is to assume that A is a matrix of a bounded operator in \ell^2 (the space of sequences x=\{x_k\}_{k=1}^n such that \sum_{k=1}^\infty|x_k|^2<\infty).

In this case if all finite principal minors are positive, we can only conclude that the matrix A is positive-semidefinite, i.e. that (Ax,x)\ge0 for all x\in\ell^2 (and "positive definite" means that (Ax, x)>0 for all non-zero x\in\ell^2). And it is not hard to construct an example where all finite principal minors are positive, but (Ax, x)=0 for some non-zero x\in\ell^2.

There can be more complicated interpretations of the quadratic forms with infinite matrices, but I am not going to discuss these right now.
 
  • #11
Thanks a lot.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K