Symmetry in Integrals: Peskin's Equation 6.43 & 6.44

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the symmetry properties of integrals as presented in Peskin's equations 6.43 and 6.44, particularly focusing on the implications of variable changes and the behavior of specific terms in the denominators of these equations. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to integrals in the context of physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the symmetry of the denominator in equation 6.43, noting that a term involving y*q appears to break the symmetry under the exchange of x and y.
  • Another participant asserts that the denominator, referred to as D, is symmetric under the exchange of x and y, and that this symmetry can be observed after changing the integration variable.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the symmetry after performing the variable change, providing examples of integrals that yield different results based on the symmetry of the integrands.
  • One participant suggests that the change of variables discussed after equation 6.43 is necessary to clarify the symmetry in the expressions.
  • A later reply indicates that the initial confusion has been resolved, thanking the previous participant for their assistance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the symmetry of the denominator in the equations, with some asserting it is symmetric while others raise concerns about specific terms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these terms and the overall symmetry.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific equations and integrals, indicating that the discussion is deeply rooted in the mathematical details of the problem. There is mention of variable changes and integration regions, which may affect the symmetry properties being debated.

physichu
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In peskin p. 192, they says that the denominator (that is equation 6.43) is symmetric under x<--> y. Thay all so say that you can see it in equation 6.44.

But one of the terms in the denominetor is y*q which dose not have that symmetry!
Looking at (6.43) and removing the summetric parts leave me with
2yk⋅q +yq2.
Whitch is not x<-->y symmetric.
 
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Your denominator is what he calls D, which is completely symmetric under x <-> y. He obtains that expression from D starting from 6.43 and changing the integration variable.
 
I don't see how :(
We have:

##\int\limits_0^1 {dxdydz\delta \left( {x + y + z - 1} \right){{2{q^\mu }m\left( {z - 2} \right)\left( {x - y} \right)} \over {\left[ {{k^2} + 2k \cdot \left( {yq - zp} \right) + y{q^2} + z{p^2} - \left( {x + y} \right){m^2} + i\varepsilon } \right]}}} ##.

Changing x<-->y gives:

##\int\limits_0^1 {dxdydz\delta \left( {x + y + z - 1} \right){{ - 2{q^\mu }m\left( {z - 2} \right)\left( {x - y} \right)} \over {\left[ {{k^2} + 2k \cdot \left( {\underline {xq} - zp} \right) + \underline {x{q^2}} + z{p^2} - \left( {x + y} \right){m^2} + i\varepsilon } \right]}}} ##

It's tempting to say that the integration region is summetric under x<-->y, so that the "x" instead of a "y" doesn't metter, but i found thise exemple:

##\int\limits_0^1 {dxdy \cdot x = } \int\limits_0^1 {dxdy \cdot y = {1 \over 2}} ##

and

##\int\limits_0^1 {\left( {x - y} \right)dxdy} = \int\limits_0^1 {\left( {y - x} \right)dxdy = 0} ##

But

##\int\limits_0^1 {dxdy\left( {x - y} \right)x} = \int\limits_0^1 {dxdy\left( {y - x} \right)y} = {1 \over {12}}##

I expected it to be zero as a multiplication of symmetric and anti symmetric factors but it turned out to be summetric.
What do i miss?
 
You first have to make the change of variables explained after eq. 6.43. After that you'll be able to explicitely see the symmetry
 
O.K. got that :)
than'x a lot :):):)
 
You're welcome!
 

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