Systems of linear differential equations by elimination?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of linear differential equations using elimination methods. The equations involve three dependent variables: x, y, and z, and the participants are exploring various approaches to reduce the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to manipulate the equations to eliminate variables and reduce the system to a single equation. Questions arise regarding the meaning of the operator "D" and whether variables can be separated for individual solutions. There is also a discussion about the feasibility of eliminating z from the equations.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing different perspectives on how to approach the problem. Some have suggested separating variables, while others have proposed using matrix representations to analyze the system. There is no clear consensus on the best method, and multiple interpretations are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working with first-order differential equations and considering the implications of differentiating the equations multiple times. There is a mention of undetermined constants in the solutions, which may affect the approach taken.

Physics news on Phys.org
hi zack7! :smile:

(try using the X2 icon just above the Reply box :wink:)

what is D ? is it d/dt ? :confused:

can't you separate the variables, and solve for (D + 1)x = 0 and (D2 +D +1)z = 0 separately?
 
tiny-tim said:
hi zack7! :smile:

(try using the X2 icon just above the Reply box :wink:)

what is D ? is it d/dt ? :confused:

can't you separate the variables, and solve for (D + 1)x = 0 and (D2 +D +1)z = 0 separately?


I can't seem to find a way to eliminate z ?
 
The equations are
\frac{dx}{dt}= -x+ z
\frac{dy}{dt}= -y+ z
\frac{dz}{dt}= -x+ y
or, letting "D" represent differentiation with respect to t,
Dx= -x+ z
Dy= -y+ z
Dz= -x+ y

Since those are three first order equations in three dependent variables, they will reduce to a single third order equation in one dependent variable. Differentiating the first equation again, D^2x= -Dx+ Dz.

From the first and third equation, that is the same as D^2x= -x+ z- x+ y= -2x+z+ y. But, also from the first equation, z= Dx+ x so we can write that as D^2x= -2x+ Dx+ x+ y or D^2x- Dx= -x+ y. Differentiating again, D^3x- D^2x= -Dx+ Dy.

From the second equation, Dy= -y+ z so we can write that as D^3x- D^2x+ Dx= -y+ z. Again, z= Dx+ x so that gives D^3x- D^2x+ Dx= -y+ Dx+ x or D^3x- D^2x- x= y.

Finally, from the third equation, y= Dz- x and, since z= Dx+ x, Dz= D^2x+ Dx, y= D^2x+ Dx- x so that D^3x- D^2x- x= D^2x+ Dx- x or D^3x- 2D^2x- Dx= (D^3+ 2D^2- D)x= 0.

Note that solving that equation will give you x(t) already involving 3 undetermined constants. In order not to introduce any other constants, get y(t) and z(t) from
z= Dx+ x and then y= Dz+ x.

Frankly, that is not the way I would have done this problem. I would have written it as the matrix equation
\frac{\begin{pmatrix}x(t) \\ y(t)\\ z(t)\end{pmatrix}}{dt}= \begin{pmatrix}-1 & 0 & 1 \\ 0 & -1 & 1 \\ -1 & 1 & 0 \end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}x(t) \\ y(t) \\ z(t)\end{pmatrix}
and found the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of the coefficient matrix.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
19
Views
2K