Technical Analysis on Titan Sub (Titanic Sub)

[phinds]

Oh, come on. Now that you've shared that it happened, you HAVE to show us so that we can warn the newbies about the monster in our midst.

 

[Baluncore]

The problem is that it might buckle. That has compression on one side and tension on the other.

The tension that prevents buckling under external pressure is circumferential, on the inside of the cylinder.

That inner layer has been pre-compressed and shortened by hydrostatic pressure from outside the vessel, which is not helping to increase tension in the inner layer to prevent inward buckling.

When tension is applied to the inner hoop, that inner surface would tend to be pulled away from the concave neutral layer. I would expect any inner tension to result in a further crushing of the outer hoop layers that are then under greater load, with a delamination of the inner layers, and a failure to prevent the buckling.

Since any inner layer hoop tension must be countered by outer layer hoop compression, I see no advantage in relying on tension to prevent inward buckling of external pressure vessels.

 

[jedishrfu]

Latest from WIRED on the OceanGate tragedy:

https://www.wired.com/story/titan-submersible-disaster-inside-story-oceangate-files/

 

[phinds]

Latest from WIRED on the OceanGate tragedy:

https://www.wired.com/story/titan-submersible-disaster-inside-story-oceangate-files/

Paywall

 

[OmCheeto]

Paywall

I got in without paying.

...
IT WAS TIME for the engineers to hand it over to OceanGate’s operations team for testing at sea. But there was another snag. David Lochridge, who oversaw marine operations at the company and who needed to sign off on the transfer, became convinced that Titan was unsafe. In January 2018, Lochridge sent Rush a quality-control inspection report detailing 27 issues with the vehicle, from questionable O-ring seals on the domes and missing bolts to flammable materials and more concerns about its carbon-fiber hull. Rush fired him the next day. (Although Lochridge later made a whistleblower report to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration about Titan, Rush sued him for breach of contract. The settlement of that lawsuit resulted in Lochridge dropping his complaint, paying OceanGate nearly $10,000, and signing an NDA. Lochridge did not respond to WIRED.)
...
Several former employees said they were neither shocked nor surprised at OceanGate’s deadly accident. Three had left the company on safety grounds, and two separately described Titan as a ticking time bomb.
...

Don't like what the engineers say? Fire them and then sue them if they mention it, even if they did it via proper channels. Another example of science and business by litigation. Disgusting that Lochridge lost the case.

 

[BillTre]

NDAs should not override considerations of safety or law. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in.

 

[Baluncore]

The Juice Media, on Australian Whistle Blower Legislation.

 

[gmax137]

Rush sued him for breach of contract. The settlement of that lawsuit resulted in Lochridge dropping his complaint, paying OceanGate nearly $10,000, and signing an NDA.

I had to read that a few times. Sounds like a case of "rich guy has better lawyers" rather than justice.

Where I worked, we were required by law to report unsafe conditions to the feds if our company didn't address safety concerns to our satisfaction.

 

[Rive]

Don't like what the engineers say? Fire them and then sue them if they mention it, even if they did it via proper channels.

Seen that attitude, and not just once.... This guy just had more money, bigger say in the company - and more victims....

 

[jedishrfu]

Its odd how sometimes these guys have names that relate to the tragedy.

Stockton Rush “rushed” things and took shortcuts.

 

[Astronuc]

Log of “Titan” Sub Crew’s Final Words Deemed Fake, Investigation Finds: Report
https://news.yahoo.com/news/log-titan-sub-crew-final-171107867.html

A purported log of the Titan submersible crew's final words has reportedly been deemed fake.

A federal team of investigators “found no evidence” that the five people onboard the Titan sub on June 18, 2023 were aware of the pending implosion, according to The New York Times.

The transcript, which began circulating online just days after the submersible went missing in the Atlantic Ocean, offered a detailed timeline of the supposed events and conversations leading up to the implosion.

“I’m confident it’s a false transcript,” said Captain Jason Neubauer, a retired member of the U.S. Coast Guard who serves as chairman of the Marine Board of Investigation. “It was made up.”

federal investigators obtained records of the real communications between the submersible and the Polar Prince, which apparently disprove the viral transcript’s accuracy.

“Somebody did it well enough to make it look plausible,” Neubauer said.

James Cameron reveals devastating intelligence he received about doomed Titan submersible after disaster
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...bmersible-titanic-investigation-b2560428.html

James Cameron Says Titan Sub Mission Shouldn't Have Been Allowed: They 'Broke The Rules'
https://www.yahoo.com/news/james-cameron-says-titan-sub-102608398.html

 

[Vanadium 50]

I find it interesting that engineers who warned of trouble don't want to be named, lest they be sued. I guess for being "insufficiently convincing".

 

[jedishrfu]

It might have to do with liability, culpability and delaying tactics common to these kinds of tragedies.

 

[pinball1970]

A $50m Lawsuit and a disturbing claim that the crew knew they were going to die.

"When the acoustic safety system’s alarm sounded, signaling the hull was “cracking under extreme pressure,” it prompted the pilot to release weight and attempt to abort the expedition.

The crew had no communications and likely would have had no power either. “Common sense dictates that the crew were well aware they were going to die, before dying,” the suit states."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...mersible-wrongful-death-lawsuit-b2592900.html

 

[Rive]

Some footages were released about the crushed vehicle laying on the ocean floor.
Also, the official transcript of the dive communication is available now.

Youtube is full of the stuff, so I think linking would be just unnecessary.

Ps.: the Coast Guard official hearings (was this month 16., 17., 19. so far) are available on their official YT channel, if anybody interested.

 

[DaveC426913]

Youtube is full of the stuff, so I think linking would be just unnecessary.

Linking to something specific accomplishes at least two things:

1. The poster presumably has vetted the Youtube stuff and chosen good content, weeding out the bunk, and
2. We can all reference - and talk about - the same segments.

 

[Rive]

presumably .... weeding out the bunk

I could not find either the original release nor a worthy secondary source, so with just a notice I left it for the participants to start picking by their own interest.

 

[pinball1970]

There is two weeks of the hearing to go, the BBC summarises here. Some footage and also the last text messages which give no indication of anything amiss.

 

[Tom.G]

See the EDIT below.

There is two weeks of the hearing to go, the BBC summarises here. Some footage and also the last text messages which give no indication of anything amiss.

Could you verify/correct that youtube link?

youtube does not recognize that link, a youtube search shows "not found."
Google returns something in Russian.


[EDIT] It showed up in this post as a playing image; yet your post (and all previous youtube links) shows up as a white triangle inside a Red rectangle!

[EDIT 2] Now, this post is back to White triangle inside Red rectangle.
Curiouser and Curiouser.
I suspect the poldergeists & gremlins are playing with us!

[EDIT 3] Arrrgh! A screen refresh turns youtube links back to the triangle/rectangle. I think I'll give up trying to understand it.

 

[Baluncore]

The failure to communicate distress by voice, may be influenced by the early ingress of salt water into the electronics. Initial revelations will be carefully controlled to protect those involved.

We will need to wait for the end of the inquiry, in a couple of weeks, before anything reliable and significant appears.

 

[pinball1970]

See the EDIT below.

Could you verify/correct that youtube link?

youtube does not recognize that link, a youtube search shows "not found."
Google returns something in Russian.


[EDIT] It showed up in this post as a playing image; yet your post (and all previous youtube links) shows up as a white triangle inside a Red rectangle!

[EDIT 2] Now, this post is back to White triangle inside Red rectangle.
Curiouser and Curiouser.
I suspect the poldergeists & gremlins are playing with us!

[EDIT 3] Arrrgh! A screen refresh turns youtube links back to the triangle/rectangle. I think I'll give up trying to understand it.

NBC may be better.

 

[collinsmark]

Scott Manley plans to cover the information gleaned from the hearings. Here's a recent video of his.

 

[collinsmark]

Scott Manely released a new video on the subject today (29-09-2024).

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Water from previous dives was pushed into voids in the carbon fiber at near 6,000 psi.
Titan was often stored outside in freezing conditions.
The water in the voids expanded with the force near 30,000 psi as it froze into ice.

The 3500 pound "door" was hung on a hinge with less than 10 inches separating the hinge points on each end of the hinge.
Multi-thousand pound doors on bank safes often have the hinge points more than 6 feet apart.

 

[Astronuc]

Titan submersible imploded due to poor engineering
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdeg7y4171xo

Hull Failure and Implosion of Submersible Titan
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA23FM036.aspx

We found that the Titan pressure vessel likely sustained damage after it surfaced at the end of dive 80 in the form of one or more delaminations, which weakened the pressure vessel. We found that after dive 82, the Titan sustained additional damage (of unknown origin) that further deteriorated and weakened the pressure vessel. The existing delaminations and additional damage that deteriorated the condition of the pressure vessel between dive 82 and the casualty dive (dive 88) resulted in a local buckling failure that led to the implosion of the Titan.

We found that OceanGate’s engineering process for the Titan was inadequate and resulted in the construction of a carbon fiber composite pressure vessel that contained multiple anomalies and failed to meet necessary strength and durability requirements. Because OceanGate did not adequately test the Titan, the company was unaware of the pressure vessel’s actual strength and durability, which was likely much lower than their target, as well as the implications of how certain operational changes, including storage condition and towing, could impact the integrity of the pressure vessel and overall safety of the vessel. Additionally, OceanGate’s analysis of Titan pressure vessel real-time monitoring data was flawed, so the company was unaware that the Titan was damaged and needed to be immediately removed from service after dive 80.

We found that, had OceanGate followed Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circular (NVIC) 05-93 guidance for emergency response plans, they likely would have had emergency response assets standing by, and the Titan likely would have been found sooner, saving time and resources even though a rescue was not possible in this case. Despite OceanGate’s failure to notify search and rescue assets about its planned expedition, as well as the limited resources able to operate at the depth of the Titanic, the US Coast Guard’s search and rescue coordination efforts were effective and resulted in the timely discovery of the Titan wreckage.

It appears to be criminal negligence.

 

[hutchphd]

Titan submersible imploded due to poor engineering
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdeg7y4171xo

Hull Failure and Implosion of Submersible Titan
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA23FM036.aspx


It appears to be criminal negligence.

I think it unlikely that any known hull material could have contained the colossal ego of Stockton Rush, a walking rebuttal to the aphorism that a man's reach should always exceed his grasp.