Tensor of electromagnetic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electromagnetic field tensor, specifically the expression for it in terms of the four-potential \( A_{\mu} \). Participants explore the definition, properties, and historical context of the tensor, questioning why it is formulated in a particular way and discussing its implications in the context of electromagnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the electromagnetic field tensor as \( F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}} \) and questions how this formulation is established.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the initial question and suggests that \( A_{\mu} \) is defined as the potential of the electromagnetic field tensor.
  • A participant questions why the tensor cannot be defined as \( F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}} \) and discusses the notion of it being a postulate.
  • Another participant agrees with the previous point and emphasizes that both formulations could represent an electromagnetic field tensor, but questions the choice of the original definition.
  • Participants note that the components of the tensor correspond to electric and magnetic field components, suggesting a physical basis for its formulation.
  • One participant mentions that the tensor must be a tensor because experimental evidence shows how electric and magnetic fields transform between different frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the definition and formulation of the electromagnetic field tensor, with multiple competing views on its expression and historical context. No consensus is reached regarding the preferred formulation or its derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not provide a clear historical account of the development of the electromagnetic field tensor, leaving its origins and the rationale behind its specific formulation unresolved.

Petar Mali
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F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}}

F_{\mu\nu}=-F_{\nu\mu}

F_{ii}\equiv 0

F_{11}=F_{22}=F_{33}=F_{44}=0
where

A_{\mu}=(-\vec{A},\frac{1}{c}\varphi)(F_{\mu\nu})=\left(\begin{array}{cccc}<br /> 0&amp; -B_z&amp;B_y&amp; -\frac{1}{c}E_x\\<br /> B_z&amp;0&amp;-B_x&amp; -\frac{1}{c}E_y \\<br /> -B_y&amp;B_x&amp;0&amp;-\frac{1}{c}E_z\\<br /> \frac{1}{c}E_x&amp; \frac{1}{c}E_y &amp; \frac{1}{c}E_z &amp; 0\\<br /> \end{array} \right)F^{\mu\nu}=g^{\mu\rho}g^{\nu\sigma}F_{\rho\sigma}(F^{\mu\nu})=\left(\begin{array}{cccc}<br /> 0&amp; -B_z&amp;B_y&amp; \frac{1}{c}E_x\\<br /> B_z&amp;0&amp;-B_x&amp; \frac{1}{c}E_y \\<br /> -B_y&amp;B_x&amp;0&amp;\frac{1}{c}E_z\\<br /> -\frac{1}{c}E_x&amp; -\frac{1}{c}E_y &amp; -\frac{1}{c}E_z &amp; 0\\<br /> \end{array} \right)

How do I know that rotA_{\mu}=\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}} is electromagnetic field tensor?
 
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Hi Petar! :smile:
Petar Mali said:
How do I know that rotA_{\mu}=\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}} is electromagnetic field tensor?

I don't understand your question :redface:

isn't Aµ defined as the potential of the electromagnetic field tensor (in which case that has to be rotA)?
 
Well its all ok for me except why I say that <br /> F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}}<br />

is EM field tensor. Why not

<br /> F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}<br />

for example?

Or some other functions?

It's like a postulate. EM field tensor is <br /> F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}}<br />

Let's form a matrix. No problem. Components of that matrix are electric field components and magnetic field components. Ok. That have sence. But how I know to start with F_{\mu\nu}. Do you know perhaps history of this problem.
 
Petar Mali said:
Why not

<br /> F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_{\mu}}{\partial x^{\nu}}-\frac{\partial A_{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}}<br />

for example?

That's minus the electromagnetic field tensor, so yes, it'll also be an electromagnetic field tensor.
Let's form a matrix. No problem. Components of that matrix are electric field components and magnetic field components. Ok. That have sence. But how I know to start with F_{\mu\nu}. Do you know perhaps history of this problem.

As you say, E and B are the 6 components of F.

F has to be a tensor because experiment tells us that is the way E and B transform in different frames. :smile:
 

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