The Greenhouse Effect vs. Blackbodies vs. Global Warming?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of the greenhouse effect, blackbody radiation, and global warming. Participants express confusion about the scientific principles involved, the role of gases like CO2, and the differences between the greenhouse effect and global warming. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, misconceptions, and the challenges of finding reliable information on the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the Earth isn't considered a blackbody and seeks clarification on the implications of the Stefan-Boltzmann Law.
  • There is inquiry into the role of gases like CO2 in the greenhouse effect and how the atmosphere influences temperature.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the distinction between the greenhouse effect and global warming.
  • Questions are raised regarding the temperature differences observed on the moon, which lacks an atmosphere.
  • Concerns are voiced about the perceived global warming problem and whether it is exaggerated or based on valid scientific understanding.
  • One participant expresses frustration over the difficulty in finding definitive answers and reliable resources on the subject.
  • Another participant mentions that discussions on global warming may be restricted due to their complexity and the potential for contentious debate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of global warming discussions, with some expressing the belief that there is a definitive understanding while others suggest the topic remains debatable and complex.

Contextual Notes

There are indications that the discussion may be limited by the forum's policies on global warming topics, which could affect the depth and breadth of the conversation.

SeventhSigma
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Can anyone explain what the right approach to this stuff is? It's an area I am largely ignorant about.

According to the Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Earth should be -18C. Obviously, this isn't true because the Earth isn't a blackbody. But my questions:

1. Why isn't the Earth technically a blackbody?
2. Do gases like CO2 really play a role?
3. How does atmosphere factor into all this?
4. Is there a difference between greenhouse effect and global warming?
5. What about the moon -- which has no atmosphere? How do we account for the differences we see in the Law vs. what we observe?
6. Do we really see a global warming problem on our hands or is it just fearmongering?
7. What technically explains the temperatures we see?
8. Is it correct to say the Earth is a great absorber but poor emitter?

I feel like this is a lot like the evolution "debate" where people have a lot of misconceptions (it's absolutely true and we don't need a God to explain it, same goes for abiogenesis models). I'd like to be on the correct side of understanding the greenhouse effect, too. I know it's a misnomer, but why?
 
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My understanding is that PF does not have the resources for (potential) global-warming discussions, and the policy is to not allow them.
 
Why aren't they allowed? Is the understanding of the issue not very fleshed out yet? Is it still debatable? I thought it was akin to the evolution debate where there really IS a "right answer" but people just skew the facts and understanding.
 
SeventhSigma said:
Why aren't they allowed? Is the understanding of the issue not very fleshed out yet? Is it still debatable?

Someone else will have a definitive answer shortly, I'm sure.

If I'm correct, it's because the discussions get fleshed out way past the ability or patience of the experts to deal with. I've seen these debates elsewhere and they always turn into a mess.
 
Argh! Why is it so impossible to find definitive answers on this subject without sifting through a bunch of crackpottery and garbage? Can anyone direct me to good resources, then, before this thread is locked?
 
SeventhSigma said:
Argh! Why is it so impossible to find definitive answers on this subject without sifting through a bunch of crackpottery and garbage? Can anyone direct me to good resources, then, before this thread is locked?

I cannot. E-mail someone here with some credentials and perhaps they can direct you.
 
Locked. Please take a look at the PF Rules, everyone.
 

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