News The leading factor in the U.S. presidential runoff: covert racism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Loren Booda
  • Start date Start date
AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the impact of race on the U.S. presidential election, particularly in relation to Barack Obama. It highlights the perception that American conservatism is rallying white voters against a backdrop of fear and prejudice, suggesting that older conservatives may be particularly influenced by historical segregation and civil rights tensions. Participants debate whether it is possible to oppose Obama without being racist, emphasizing the complexity of racial biases in voting behavior. They discuss the phenomenon of covert racism, where individuals may not recognize their own prejudices, and how this influences their political choices. The conversation also touches on the motivations behind voting patterns among different racial groups, with some arguing that black voters may support Obama to promote racial equality, while others contend that many voters, regardless of race, may base their decisions on issues like economic policy rather than race. The dialogue reflects a broader struggle with racial identity and the implications of racism across the political spectrum, with participants expressing frustration over the oversimplification of these issues in public discourse.
Loren Booda
Messages
3,108
Reaction score
4
Notwithstanding that Barack Obama was born to a black father, the U.S. presidential runoff will be decided on issues of race, especially driven by fearful stereotypes and the racist attempt to retain control of America by a dwindling white population.

American conservatism, subtly or overtly, is rallying Caucasian voters to one last stand of supremacy. (It seems to me this prejudice may be endemic to older conservatives bitter from the fallout of the civil rights era and conditioned by the experience of segregation, or middle class enclaves competing economically with a recent influx of ethnicities.)

Do tolerant conservatives sense this push toward discrimination in politics, or overhear back room conversations that basically argue about the inferiority of the black race and the need to exclude their concerns from the public forum? The metaphorical mule is being slapped out from under the governmental gallows.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hah, when I was visiting Mass and I would tell them I'm from DC, they would all say to me: "Oh, you have a lot of black people there. I have nothing against black people, but there are so many in DC"

I was like...uh...okay?

Americans have a serious complex when it comes to sex, race, and religion.
 
How about racism of blacks toward whites or ethnocentrism? Do you think that is a factor here as well? Whether the candidate is a Harvard grad or a crack addict, blacks tend to get upwards of 90% of the "black vote". Why?

Regardless of how you look at the issue, though, I do agree with cyrus. Americans have a complex about race. We are not yet to the point where people ignore it.
 
So then, are you claiming that it is impossible to disagree with Barack or vote against him for reasons that are not racist? If that is not impossible, then you would have no way of knowing the reasons that people vote against him. Since you couldn't know the real reason, you would be pre-judging (prejudice) people with your assumption that the leading reason is racism.
 
Last edited:
DaleSpam said:
So then, are you claiming that it is impossible to disagree with Barack or vote against him for reasons that are not racist?

The best thing about covert racism is that sometimes it's so covert the racist himself doesn't realize he is racist. He might even think he's voting for McCain based on, say, economic issues or foreign policy, but nope, it's all racism.
 
DaleSpam said:
So then, are you claiming that it is impossible to disagree with Barack or vote against him for reasons that are not racist?

You have Hillary supports who are drifting towards McCain instead of Obama because he just "isn't their kind of guy".

What reason can they have to going to McCain? He's anti-abortion, wants to keep the war going, no universal healthcare, i.e. the exact opposite of why you'd support Hillary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1x81XODP-o&feature=related

F1x81XODP-o&feature=related[/youtube]
 
Vanadium 50 said:
The best thing about covert racism is that sometimes it's so covert the racist himself doesn't realize he is racist. He might even think he's voting for McCain based on, say, economic issues or foreign policy, but nope, it's all racism.
Wait, are you just saying that it is impossible to disagree with Obama if you are not racist?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
The best thing about covert racism is that sometimes it's so covert the racist himself doesn't realize he is racist. He might even think he's voting for McCain based on, say, economic issues or foreign policy, but nope, it's all racism.
And ironically, often it is the one looking for/finding covert racism everywhere he/she looks who really is the covert racist!
 
DaleSpam said:
So then, are you claiming that it is impossible to disagree with Barack or vote against him for reasons that are not racist?

I can think of a wealth of reasons people would not vote for Obama besides racism. Examples would be stupidity, ignorance, spite, or the two issues that have always accounted for 95% of all votes for Republicans: abortion and tax cuts.
 
  • #10
DaleSpam said:
If that is not impossible, then you would have no way of knowing the reasons that people vote against him.
Of course you would - they admit to it in polls!

For instance, 8% of WV Primary voters said race was the most important factor in their decision. At least 86% of those respondents voted for Hillary. And additional 14% said it was one of the factors, and more than 80% of those people voted for Hillary.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#WVDEM
 
  • #11
quadraphonics said:
Examples would be stupidity, ignorance, spite, or the two issues that have always accounted for 95% of all votes for Republicans: abortion and tax cuts.
Over 80% of households will see a bigger tax cut from Obama's plan than from McCain's plan.
 
  • #12
Gokul43201 said:
Over 80% of households will see a bigger tax cut from Obama's plan than from McCain's plan.

True, but a great number of those households are occupied by knaves who don't understand what they're voting for, and have been conditioned to associate Republicans with "low taxes, small government," and Democrats with "tax and spend." The point was what is motivating the voters, not what they'll actually end up with.
 
  • #13
Yes, that would fall under "stupiditiy" like he said.
 
  • #14
What incited me to start this thread were the extreme statistical exaggerations and untruths in the following diatribe, an attempt to rationalize ignorance within the electorate. How would Mr. Buchanan's "Higher Intelligence" respond to him? What difference would it make if his assertions about blacks were instead true of whites - that it is not color but the difference thereof that matters?


http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=969
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #15
That entire thing reads like some kind of sick joke. IMO Pat Buchanan is an insult to the intelligence of not just white people but all people.
 
  • #16
Loren, you're missing a link to the url. That's a few months old, isn't it? I remember reading that article this Spring.
 
  • #17
  • #18
I expect that racism will play a role in the next election and will skew results. To the extent that Obama surrounds himself with a black cadre of spokes people, to the extent that Michelle plays a prominent role in interviews and campaigning, I think it will all work to distract voters from whatever his underlaying message may be.

Sadly for the GOP though they have done such a butcher job on the US economy and foreign policy, that I have serious doubts McCain has the mettle, or the charisma, or the arrows in his quiver, or that there is that much racism, to keep their dreadful reign any longer in power, nor likely any hope of McCain not being branded, bound and thrown off the sacrificial cliff with the rest of them.
 
  • #19
Evo said:
That entire thing reads like some kind of sick joke. IMO Pat Buchanan is an insult to the intelligence of not just white people but all people.

I think you need to view Buchanan in light of what he makes his living at. He's apparently a conservative shock jock, prepared to defend outrageous positions, because it gives him notoriety and face time.

You probably don't like Ann Coulter either.
 
  • #20
Evo said:
Why it says "posted by Linda" I do not understand. Anyone?
The site is run by a Linda Miller.
 
  • #21
Vanadium 50 said:
The best thing about covert racism is that sometimes it's so covert the racist himself doesn't realize he is racist. He might even think he's voting for McCain based on, say, economic issues or foreign policy, but nope, it's all racism.

Social psychologists use something called an Implicit Association Test (IAT) to study bias. According to this measure, 79-80% of whites show a preference for white, and more interestingly 42% of blacks show a preference for white. This is an interesting video about IAT tests and racial bias:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Q5FQfXZag

and, yes, I've been tested, but I won't tell you how I did. :smile:
 
  • #22
No need to post the Buchanan quote, Loren...most of us know what the agenda of the racist faction of the "conservative" wing is. It's pretty crazy - I have been a conservative for all my life and I can't call myself a conservative for fear of being lumped in with these nut-cases. I worked full-time summers and vacations as much as possible from the age of 13-14 to save money to put myself through college. I worked all through college so that my load on my parents was minimal. I have always espoused smaller, more efficient, more responsive governments at the town, county, state, and federal levels, only to see my hopes dashed by the corrupt two-party system that dominates our governments. Now, I am sickened by "conservatives" who have thrown off all pretense and brazenly loot the public coffers while building programs that enrich their backers, and wave the flag and holler "unpatriotic" and "un-American" at anybody who tries to raise an objection to any of their policies.

My wife and I both came from large and poor families, and when we started out, we had nothing but each other. We have worked very hard to get where we are, and we always voted split tickets to make sure that we got the best of the (sometimes poor choices of) candidates in office. Now, we are almost certainly committed to voting a straight-Democratic ticket (with some exceptions) because of the blatant lies and hijacking of our government by Bush/Cheney and the unwavering support they have gotten from our (both women) senators. Collins is history this time, if we can make it happen, and Snowe is gone next time, if possible, though they have both gotten our votes in the past. Enough is enough.

For some background, this conservative dated a young black woman in college, and given the huge white/black disparity in 1970 or so, I dated a MUCH higher proportion of blacks than whites per capita. My favorite nephew (another real conservative and a soul-mate concerning hunting, fishing, shooting, etc) is a lifer in the Navy and worked his way up from being a grunt to accepting a commission as a Chief Warrant Officer. Years back, he married a lovely black woman stationed in San Diego with a beautiful black daughter from a previous marriage. I treasure them. Real conservatives value real people and don't figure race into the picture. BTW, when I was a chief specialist for the 2nd-largest training company in the world, they gave me a black guy for a project manager, and he became a great friend almost immediately. A former multi-discipline engineer on a nuclear attack sub - smart, level-headed, with the temperament to deal with adversity in a way that emphasized the strengths of our department. I learned a lot from that guy.

Bottom line: Tread lightly on the issues of race and racism. I hope that there are lot of life-long conservatives who don't want to be tied to the neo-cons and their agendas, and will be willing to vote for Obama, if only for some hope for fiscal responsibility, and tax reform. In my mind, and in the minds of other real conservatives (I hope) is the notion that those of us who benefit disproportionately from the US/capitalist system should be willing to repay that system in kind and not push an oppressive tax burden onto the disadvantaged or onto the coming generations who have little or no say in current policy.
 
Last edited:
  • #23
Math Is Hard said:
Social psychologists use something called an Implicit Association Test (IAT) to study bias. According to this measure, 79-80% of whites show a preference for white, and more interestingly 42% of blacks show a preference for white. This is an interesting video about IAT tests and racial bias:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Q5FQfXZag

and, yes, I've been tested, but I won't tell you how I did. :smile:
Fascinating! Looks like you can take the test on the IAT website.
 
  • #24
LowlyPion said:
I think you need to view Buchanan in light of what he makes his living at. He's apparently a conservative shock jock, prepared to defend outrageous positions, because it gives him notoriety and face time.
His comments are revolting. I know what he does for a living. He's a scum bag, IMO.

Because posts that are offensive to any group of people are not allowed on this forum, I have deleted the verbiage. I will the leave link up, but warn anyone that reads it that it is extremely racist and offensive.
 
Last edited:
  • #25
Evo said:
His comments are revolting. I know what he does for a living. He's a scum bag, IMO.

Because posts that are offensive to any group of people are not allowed on this forum, I have deleted the verbiage. I will the leave link up, but warn anyone that reads it that it is extremely racist and offensive.

I certainly don't defend him, but neither do I loathe him.

It's like you can't blame a shark for eating swimmers. It's their nature.

He's trained to elicit responses. He punches buttons and stimulates discussion. He writes books. He does shows. He makes money. And sadly he is likely articulating a vein of sentiment that runs strongly in certain quarters, however unreasonable such sentiment may be.
 
  • #26
LowlyPion said:
I certainly don't defend him, but neither do I loathe him.

It's like you can't blame a shark for eating swimmers. It's their nature.

He's trained to elicit responses. He punches buttons and stimulates discussion. He writes books. He does shows. He makes money. And sadly he is likely articulating a vein of sentiment that runs strongly in certain quarters, however unreasonable such sentiment may be.
Sharks are eating because you are in their house and you're what's for dinner.

He is an imbecile because he chooses to be.
 
  • #27
Evo said:
Sharks are eating because you are in their house and you're what's for dinner.

He is an imbecile because he chooses to be.

Maybe he just plays one on TV?

I suspect he hauls in good money for playing the part too.
 
  • #28
I appreciate your editing my post on Buchanan, Evo. It's amazing how "educated" people are entranced by his hate. What matters seems to be that some white people live in a world with black people, and others spend their lives avoiding and denying them. The racial inferiority complex sticks too many whites to their own tar baby. It is disturbing how certain whites can talk "straight" to a black person, then use the n-word when his back is turned.

turbo-1, a beautiful account. I have been blessed with African-American co-workers, acquaintances and friends (next step, neighbors). For me, many beautiful times have been spent with a minority-run energy conservation company; from being the first white person (assistant scout master) in over 50 years of a Boy Scout troop's history; as a worker at (heavenly) Goodwill Industries (approximately 95% minority - for her 25 years there my mother received the national Goodwill volunteer of the year award); and now volunteer of the year at a nursing home (where my mother passed on) with a substantial black presence. One true gentleman - now about 83 years old - whom I still correspond with since Goodwill, served as a Marine sergeant in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. You bet I'm proud!
 
  • #29
Loren Booda said:
I have been blessed with African-American co-workers, acquaintances and friends (next step, neighbors). For me, many beautiful times have been spent with a minority-run energy conservation company; from being the first white person (assistant scout master) in over 50 years of a Boy Scout troop's history; as a worker at (heavenly) Goodwill Industries (approximately 95% minority - for her 25 years there my mother received the national Goodwill volunteer of the year award); and now volunteer of the year at a nursing home (where my mother passed on) with a substantial black presence. One true gentleman - now about 83 years old - whom I still correspond with since Goodwill, served as a Marine sergeant in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. You bet I'm proud!

What in the hell is this?

Why is it people have to say either "Race is SUPER!" or "RACE SUCKS!"

Why can't it be "Race? What about it?"
 
  • #30
Gokul43201 said:
Of course you would - they admit to it in polls!

For instance, 8% of WV Primary voters said race was the most important factor in their decision. At least 86% of those respondents voted for Hillary. And additional 14% said it was one of the factors, and more than 80% of those people voted for Hillary.http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#WVDEM
What was the point of pointing out how many of them voted for Hilary? That doesn't really tell you anything at all. (Until you include the behavior of the other 77% of the voters)
 
  • #31
WarPhalange
Why can't it be "Race? What about it?"

I answered what it's about for me.
 
  • #32
Loren Booda said:
WarPhalange

I answered what it's about for me.
You know what race is about to me? Genetic composition, maybe skin color. I must say that, to me, it looks really strage to see you and turbo-1 spontaneously bragging about the race of your associates.
 
  • #33
American conservatism, subtly or overtly, is rallying Caucasian voters to one last stand of supremacy. (It seems to me this prejudice may be endemic to older conservatives bitter from the fallout of the civil rights era and conditioned by the experience of segregation, or middle class enclaves competing economically with a recent influx of ethnicities.)

While there are racists on the right side of the political spectrum, there are also racists on the left. For example, Senator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd" is a former KKK member and longtime Democrat who fought against Civil Rights. If a Republican had this history, there would be a huge uproar.

As for my personal experience, I have witnessed and experienced racism more than a few times. I have also learned that I am just as likely to face racism from a liberal as from a conservative.

IMO, the propaganda about the monopoly of racism on one side of the political fence is somewhat disingenuous. On a similar note, I (as an atheist) find it interesting that the media is so quick to condemn the religious right while simultaneously making excuses for the religious left (i.e. Rev Jeremiah Wright etc).

His comments are revolting. I know what he does for a living. He's a scum bag, IMO

I agree. Pat Buchanan is a dirt bag. I despise him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #34
Loren Booda said:
Notwithstanding that Barack Obama was born to a black father, the U.S. presidential runoff will be decided on issues of race, especially driven by fearful stereotypes and the racist attempt to retain control of America by a dwindling white population.

American conservatism, subtly or overtly, is rallying Caucasian voters to one last stand of supremacy. (It seems to me this prejudice may be endemic to older conservatives bitter from the fallout of the civil rights era and conditioned by the experience of segregation, or middle class enclaves competing economically with a recent influx of ethnicities.)

Do tolerant conservatives sense this push toward discrimination in politics, or overhear back room conversations that basically argue about the inferiority of the black race and the need to exclude their concerns from the public forum? The metaphorical mule is being slapped out from under the governmental gallows.

I hope that you realize racism isn't a white thing. I have met just as many racists from every ethnic group as I have white racists. I've met people who are racist against hispanics, jews, asians, middle eastern people, black people, white people, ect. So just incase you were unaware please realize that there are probably people of all races that will not be voting for Obama because of his skin colour and many probably don't care much for white people either.
 
  • #35
Thanks, Stat, for bringing some balance into the conversation.

My bragging about good times with black people is similar to the appreciation I have found from Hispanic countries, celebrating Holidays with Jews, and past partying with good old boys (who could learn somethings from the first three) here in Virginia.
 
  • #36
Sure there are always going to be some white voters who will pick a white guy over a black guy, but I bet there are more black voters who will vote for a black guy over a white guy. Maybe it is an issue of trust. Black people generally don't trust white people. I guess you could call them racists who don't even know it. Same goes with some white people.

There just so happens to be a controversial issue over Obamas pastor being anti white, and perhaps anti-semetic. Would a black person trust a white person who went to Church and watched the preacher stand there dis on black people talking about how they are causing crime and selling drugs. It would be different if they were accusing individuals instead of races. I think the issue here is the question of Obama, is he a racists, or did he just kiss up to father Wright to advance his career? What kind of person lives a lie for politics? That brings his sincerity into question.
 
  • #37
sketchtrack said:
Black people generally don't trust white people. I guess you could call them racists who don't even know it.

Yeah... ironic, isn't it? :rolleyes:

I'd say blacks would rather vote black than white because they feel they need to in order to equalize society and that having one black president will open the doors for more, i.e. it's about time we had a black president and not "I don't trust whitey". Look at how many blacks like the Clintons.

I think of it the same way... God, the name escapes me... one of the Civil Rights leaders who didn't want any help from white people, not because he didn't like them, but he thought that this is something blacks have to do for themselves by themselves to show the world they can do it and are equals.
 
  • #38
WarPhalange said:
Yeah... ironic, isn't it? :rolleyes:

I'd say blacks would rather vote black than white because they feel they need to in order to equalize society and that having one black president will open the doors for more, i.e. it's about time we had a black president and not "I don't trust whitey". Look at how many blacks like the Clintons.

I think of it the same way... God, the name escapes me... one of the Civil Rights leaders who didn't want any help from white people, not because he didn't like them, but he thought that this is something blacks have to do for themselves by themselves to show the world they can do it and are equals.

To stick it to the "white man".
 
  • #39
Do you people honestly not see anything wrong when you say things like "That black man was very well spoken" or "That Muslim wasn't violent at all." or "That Jewish man is very generous."

Seriously?
 
  • #40
I think more an emphasis is on liberal vs. conservatives than on white vs. black. You could argue that it is all racism, but those people won't vote for any liberals. They were furious at getting McCain as their candidate because he was too liberal.
 
  • #41
WarPhalange said:
Do you people honestly not see anything wrong when you say things like "That black man was very well spoken" or "That Muslim wasn't violent at all." or "That Jewish man is very generous."

Seriously?

Who are you talking about? I never hear people talk like that, but that still doesn't sound very racist. It seams to me that your version of Racism is any kind of racial classification what so ever. What would you have the world do, drop their heritage?
 
  • #42
sketchtrack said:
Who are you talking about? I never hear people talk like that,

In this very thread you have people saying "That black man was very smart and nice he sure was yup."

and in another thread you had a guy who kept saying "Barack Hussein Obama" and then saying "It's okay, I have a Muslim friend. He isn't violent at all."

but that still doesn't sound very racist. It seams to me that your version of Racism is any kind of racial classification what so ever. What would you have the world drop their heritage.

It is racist because although you are denying racial stereotypes, you still acknowledge them. When you say "That black man was very well spoken" you are immediately implying all other black men are not well-spoken.

It's so ingrained in our society we can't even distinguish it anymore.
 
  • #43
WarPhalange said:
In this very thread you have people saying "That black man was very smart and nice he sure was yup."

and in another thread you had a guy who kept saying "Barack Hussein Obama" and then saying "It's okay, I have a Muslim friend. He isn't violent at all."



It is racist because although you are denying racial stereotypes, you still acknowledge them. When you say "That black man was very well spoken" you are immediately implying all other black men are not well-spoken.

It's so ingrained in our society we can't even distinguish it anymore.

That just sounds paranoid. Maybe you live in a southern state where there is more racism than other states. The thing is you are just plain blaming a race when you say "white people this, white people that" you are stereotyping white people at being racist. At the same time you are being racist to whites you are complaining about racism to others .
 
  • #44
sketchtrack said:
That just sounds paranoid. Maybe you live in a southern state where there is more racism than other states. The thing is you are just plain blaming a race when you say "white people this, white people that" you are stereotyping white people at being racist. At the same time you are being racist to whites you are complaining about racism to others .

Huh?

Did I ever mention white people this or that?

And no, I live in the Pacific north west. I grew up around people of all races. That's why I don't make a big deal of it when I meet a black person who is well spoken -- I know plenty.
 
  • #45
WarPhalange said:
Huh?

Did I ever mention white people this or that?

And no, I live in the Pacific north west. I grew up around people of all races. That's why I don't make a big deal of it when I meet a black person who is well spoken -- I know plenty.

Why do you keep pointing out reasons why you are some kind of exception of a white person who isn't racist, like because you work and live around so many ethnicities you are a different changed white person. It is clear you have some kind of misplaced guilt complex about your race. Maybe your around so many people who hate white people that you feel it is normal. I have had a few African American friends who were ethiopian, and they said that have white friends, but they said they were cool because they were like whites against white people, like they had denounced their race so they were different that white people who defend white people. It seams that the bulk of racism now days is against white people like it is the cool thing to do.
 
  • #46
sketchtrack said:
It is clear you have some kind of misplaced guilt complex about your race.

What is my race?
 
  • #47
Whoa, your right, sorry, I was losing track of who I was talking to.
 
  • #48
And no, I don't have a guilt complex about my race. I simply realized a long time ago that looking at people as people works a lot better than looking at them as man/woman or by their race.

That's why I find it ridiculous that people even say things like "I'm not racist. I have a black friend and he doesn't like fried chicken at all!"

Why bring up these stereotypes in the first place? When people analyze "the black vote" or "the hispanic vote" on the news, they're not talking about being racist, but what these people feel strongly about based on shared experiences.

A lot of latinos are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants, ergo they might care about immigration laws more, especially if they want to visit family or bring family over.

A black person (half-black, at least) has a shot to get to the White House now, so people who feel they are still not represented equally in government might see this as a chance to equalize things. Well, who has a history of being oppressed in this country?

This is pretty simple stuff, just take a while to think about it instead of saying "well black people don't trust white people". That's just damn insulting. If someone said "White people don't trust black people" around me I'd smack them in the face (oops, I gave my race away!). They don't speak for me. How dare they?
 
  • #49
Hurkyl said:
You know what race is about to me? Genetic composition, maybe skin color. I must say that, to me, it looks really strage to see you and turbo-1 spontaneously bragging about the race of your associates.
I wasn't bragging about the race of my associates/family. I was pointing out to the OP that there are conservatives who value people for their qualities and that race is not an issue for us. I certainly hope that Buchanan and his ilk do not speak for most conservatives.
 
  • #50
I'm amused at the direction of this thread: even a conservative who doesn't like Pat Buchanan is merely being sensible, but the only possible reason anyone can dislike Barack Obama is racism, covert or otherwise.
 

Hot Threads

Recent Insights

Back
Top