News The possibility of New Orleans disaster as psyops success

[Art]

Could you provide a quote where a person says he was held at the superdome at gunpoint? I may not have read that link closely, but I didn't see anything resembling that in it.

edit: I'm not posting this to argue over the semantics - I really want to know the facts of what happened in the Superdome. People are saying a lot of things that just don't make sense. It looks to me like people are filling in the gaps on the information with their own personal speculation about what they think might have happened - or worse, what they want to believe happened.

I'd really like to know what, exactly was stopping people from walking away from the Superdome. Was every exit guarded by soldiers? With all the chaos in there, did anyone try to leave? Did anyone try to simply walk past the guards (if there were any)?

Regarding martial law - that's a phrase I wouldn't expect the government to ever use. So there won't be any "declaration of martial law". But we have seen some things that resemble what we would normally associate with it.

Fox news were the original ones to say there was a lockdown at the convention centre and the superdome. There are numerous references to the broadcast on the web. Here's one

Last night on Hannity and Colmes, Shepherd Smith and Geraldo Rivera were both reporting from the Convention Center. Both of them reported that the refugees at the Convention Center have essentially ben in lockdown since Tuesday. Anyone who tried to leave by walking out the only unflooded path, I-10, had been turned back by armed blockades that had been set up "by the Federal Government." "Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds" of people were sitting on the "easily accessible bridge" had been sitting there for days, not able to cross, and without any deliveries of even water.

Rivera was begging that people be allowed to "walk away from here".

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1476321/posts

 

[edward]

And for what ever reason they weren't leaving, people were still arriving.

The president and the governor both asserted Wednesday that everyone would be moving to a spiffier football stadium. But although Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco had announced at 11 a.m. a plan to evacuate the Superdome to Houston's Astrodome, Maj. Bush had received no information through mid-afternoon. By his estimate about 15,000 people remained in the Superdome, and more straggled in through the day, either wading in on foot or dropped off by a helicopter rescue effort that so far has plucked 3,000 people from the roofs of flooded homes.

(The Maj. Bush referred to was a national guard public relations officer.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/31/AR2005083102801_pf.html

 

[oldunion]

Army Corps of Engineers diver takes burnt concrete to forensics lab and explosives are identified


HalTurnerShow - New Orleans, LA -- Divers inspecting the ruptured levee walls surrounding New Orleans found something that piqued their interest: Burn marks on underwater debris chunks from the broken levee wall !

One diver, a member of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, saw the burn marks and knew immediately what caused them. He secreted a small chunk of the cement inside his diving suit and later arranged for it to be sent to trusted military friends at a The U.S. Army Forensic Laboratory at Fort Gillem, Georgia for testing.

According to well placed sources, a military forensic specialist determined the burn marks on the cement chunks did, in fact, come from high explosives. The source, speaking on condition of anonymity said "We found traces of boron-enhanced fluoronitramino explosives as well as PBXN-111. This would indicate at least two separate types of explosive devices."

The levee ruptures in New Orleans did not take place during Hurricane Katrina, but rather a day after the hurricane struck. Several residents of New Orleans and many Emergency Workers reported hearing what sounded like large, muffled explosions from the area of the levee, but those were initially discounted as gas explosions from homes with leaking gas lines.

"If these allegations prove true, the ruptured levee which flooded New Orleans was a deliberate act of mass destruction perpetrated by someone with access to military-grade UNDERWATER high explosives."

 

[Pengwuino]

whats the source?

 

[Pengwuino]

Fox news were the original ones to say there was a lockdown at the convention centre and the superdome. There are numerous references to the broadcast on the web.

Whoa referencing Fox news?

 

[oldunion]

whats the source?

i wouldn't expect to hear too much about this in the news.

the source is halturnershow.com

Im now convined beyond doubt that this was an inside job again, but the next link I am going to post took me by surprise. I wouldn't have believed it but then i looked at the second post which showed the official act.

weather controlling:
http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10048

there are pictures and speculations there.

 

[Smurf]

I agree with you completely except for one thing. It wasn't an inside job, it was much much worse.
Link.

 

[Pengwuino]

I agree with you completely except for one thing. It wasn't an inside job, it was much much worse.
Link.

UFO's... I KNEW IT!

 

[oldunion]

I agree with you completely except for one thing. It wasn't an inside job, it was much much worse.
Link.

im going to read as much of that as i can take in one sitting, but what are you suggesting? None of that seems verifiable.

 

[edward]

It was sections of two foot thick concrete flood walls which extended above the edges of the shipping channels that broke.

I could imagine that at some point that it may be shown that the locations of the breaks were in areas that were prone to receiving an occasional bump from a barge.

 

[pattylou]

...the locations of the breaks were in areas that were prone to receiving an occasional bump from a barge.

Or a saucer.

 

[oldunion]

It was sections of two foot thick concrete flood walls which extended above the edges of the shipping channels that broke.

I could imagine that at some point that it may be shown that the locations of the breaks were in areas that were prone to receiving an occasional bump from a barge.

not sure exactly what youre trying to say here. if youre trying to deny the possibility of explosives, you have to address the fact that they found residue...thats pretty damning evidence.

 

[russ_watters]

Ok, Art, so they weren't allowed on I-10. So then they were allowed to leave the Superdome itself? I-10 is 250 yards from the superdome.

 

[russ_watters]

not sure exactly what youre trying to say here. if youre trying to deny the possibility of explosives, you have to address the fact that they found residue...thats pretty damning evidence.

Oldunion, you've really gone off the deep end with this one. If you had real evidence, I'm sure you would have provided it already, but that tired, old HAARP conspiracy theory is as bad as they come, so I won't be holding my breath.

For those with a strong stomach, http://www.halturnershow.com/index.html

One thing, you will laugh out loud at the part where he compares hurricanes to galaxies and therefore global warming's equivalent, "space warming" should create galaxies. But then you might just vomit at his racism...

Much of what he has there, I'm reasonably certain he makes up on the spot.

 

[Evo]

not sure exactly what youre trying to say here. if youre trying to deny the possibility of explosives, you have to address the fact that they found residue...thats pretty damning evidence.

You don't really believe that, do you?

 

[Pengwuino]

Am I really seeing what I think I am seeing with that advertisement to the left that says "White's only"?

 

[oldunion]

You don't really believe that, do you?

im still looking for more credible evidence.

but two things: that's a pretty random thing to make up
ive seen it on 3 forums so far.


Russ, there is an act to form a division in the government for developing weather control. HAARP manipulates the atmosphere...ive known about HAARP for years, i never connected it with weather though. doesn't anyone find it strange that there is an act, a legal group is trying to be formed for...weather control. this is not a sci fi movie, and i don't see any way to scrutinize that.

 

[oldunion]

Am I really seeing what I think I am seeing with that advertisement to the left that says "White's only"?

i hear he's a racist and bigot, which is why I am looking for more evidence.


Im onto other things for the night, i didnt find much. The levee would have blasted for two reasons, I've heard that it was done to flood the lower part of new orleans to protect the richer sectors- i don't know the engineering behind the levees but it doesn't make sense that water would flood one part of town and not the other.

Or the levee was blown to make it look like it was a result of the hurricane. Remember it broke the day after, not the day the hurricane hit.

 

[rachmaninoff]

This is absurd.

(just to state the obvious...)

 

[Pengwuino]

i hear he's a racist and bigot, which is why I am looking for more evidence.

Well, good luck finding it, but stick to different sites. "for Whites Only" is about as credible as McVey's thoughts on the FCC's regulatory power.

Im onto other things for the night, i didnt find much. The levee would have blasted for two reasons, I've heard that it was done to flood the lower part of new orleans to protect the richer sectors- i don't know the engineering behind the levees but it doesn't make sense that water would flood one part of town and not the other.

Or the levee was blown to make it look like it was a result of the hurricane. Remember it broke the day after, not the day the hurricane hit.

Oh god this reeks of the logic used the 9/11 conspiracies. the laws of physics were not broken here. If one part of town is higher then another, its highly likely that the higher part of the town will survive af looding while the lower part next to the water will not. Water is not racist/sexist/classist/whatever... its just water.

Things normally fail over time if they are not instantly overwhelmed. The pressure existed from day one but things do not just instantly snap because a certain pressure is reached. If the water is still there, there is no reason to think that another hpart of the levee won't just burst open at any time now. Things weaken over time, they don't just give way the second something is starting to reach its maximum. Think about subs... they have a hull crush depth. Sure you can go to 5m above that crush depth but if you stay there long enough, the sub is going to be crushed anyways because its all about stress and strain.

 

[BobG]

Or the levee was blown to make it look like it was a result of the hurricane. Remember it broke the day after, not the day the hurricane hit.

Actually, the first levee broke about 2 hours after Katrina made landfall. ABC News first reported a levee broke about 3 hours later.

Unfortunately, communications was horrible. One of the side effects of the US's extensive cell phone and land line communication networks is satellite phones have never really taken off in the US (remember what happened to Iridium). Combined, the National Guard had one satellite phone for entire Gulf Coast (the Middle East relies much more on satellites for phone service, so virtually all of the National Guard's satellite phones were sent to Iraq). With land communication lines wiped out, there wasn't much in the way of communication. With no one in charge saying anything about the levee system, the story got dropped as rumor.

Even the Army Corps of Engineer's top official in New Orleans (Col Wagenaar) seemed unaware of the extent of damage to the levee system. Someone from the New Orleans police department had managed to tell the ACE about the levee break, but the ACE couldn't get anyone to the site to check it out. That evening, Wagenaar was the official who said, "The fact that Katrina didn't cause more damage is a testament to the structural integrity of the hurricane levee protection system."

The Washington Post has a good article on the buildup to the hurricane and immediately after the hurricane.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

On the earlier point, yes the people were held there against their will. People don't usually scream to be let out when the door is open. That's why the few people who WERE allowed to leave were attacked (various things thrown at them) - they appeared to be getting preferrential treatment.

 

[Yonoz]

With land communication lines wiped out, there wasn't much in the way of communication.

An off-topic question: does the National Guard not have a radio communication system?

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

An off-topic question: does the National Guard not have a radio communication system?

Yes they do but in certain situations, and this is a prime example, the radio operator had better NOT start emergency radio traffic without proper approval. Proper approval doesn't always answer their cell phone especially when they see its work calling. Proper approval gets drunk sometimes. Proper approval often goes on vacation without leaving an alternate point of contact. Proper approval oftentimes is inept. Proper approval is usually a young Second Lieutenant fresh out of college and Officers Candidate School who is trying to "make it" and deathly afraid of making the wrong decision. In the recent past I've had many discussions with people on this subject and I have to say that without a doubt that anyone who is FRAKKIN IGNORANT ENOUGH to swim in a storm surge and place explosives should personally hold them in place until they're detonated. ANYONE who dives knows how much junk is in river water and knows the visibility is zilch. After a storm the water is much worse because now you have MANY MORE objects in it that can do you harm. Let's forget about all the creepy-crawly things that bite and sting, that's a given. What I'm specifically talking about is flotsam that you can't see that is just below the surface. It may come in the form of a waterlogged childs toy that harmlessly bumps you and goes on about its merry way or it can be the leading limb of a 50 foot tree that has all its limbs ground to points and is collecting soft objects on its tip, eg. FRAKKIN IGNORANT DIVERS!
Mentor please lock this thread and/or place it in scepticism...

 

[russ_watters]

Russ, there is an act to form a division in the government for developing weather control.

Dare I ask for a copy of the act?

HAARP manipulates the atmosphere...ive known about HAARP for years, i never connected it with weather though.

You haven't?! That's one of the classic conspiracy theories! It may well be the original internet conspiracy theory. You know about chemtrails, right...?

ive heard that it was done to flood the lower part of new orleans to protect the richer sectors- i don't know the engineering behind the levees but it doesn't make sense that water would flood one part of town and not the other.

Well, at least you're thinking a little - you still haven't turned the corner, though. oldunion, that site that you linked isn't so much a red flag as an explosion telling you that that you should ignore it.

 

[Pengwuino]

Isn't HAARP a senior citizen organization

 

[rachmaninoff]

Just found this:

How You Can Help
Please do not send any items to the
White House intended for the victims
of Hurricane Katrina. Instead...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hurricane/

 

[oldunion]

I am not connecting this act with what happened in new orleans. Make your own conclusions here, i don't include it in my theory of Katrina.

Weather Modification Research & Technology Act of 2005

September 2nd, 2005

(Introduced in Senate)

S 517 IS

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 517

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 3, 2005

Mrs. HUTCHISON introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation

A BILL

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. PURPOSE.

It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) BOARD- The term `Board' means the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(2) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR- The term `Executive Director' means the Executive Director of the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(3) RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The term `research and development' means theoretical analysis, exploration, experimentation, and the extension of investigative findings and theories of scientific or technical nature into practical application for experimental and demonstration purposes, including the experimental production and testing of models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes.

(4) WEATHER MODIFICATION- The term `weather modification' means changing or controlling, or attempting to change or control, by artificial methods the natural development of atmospheric cloud forms or precipitation forms which occur in the troposphere.

SEC. 4. WEATHER MODIFICATION ADVISORY AND RESEARCH BOARD ESTABLISHED.

(a) IN GENERAL- There is established in the Department of Commerce the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(b) MEMBERSHIP-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Board shall consist of 11 members appointed by the Secretary of Commerce, of whom--

(A) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Meteorological Society;

(B) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Society of Civil Engineers;

(C) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Academy of Sciences;

(D) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Center for Atmospheric Research of the National Science Foundation;

(E) at least 2 shall be representatives of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of the Department of Commerce;

(F) at least 1 shall be a representative of institutions of higher education or research institutes; and

(G) at least 1 shall be a representative of a State that is currently supporting operational weather modification projects.

(2) TENURE- A member of the Board serves at the pleasure of the Secretary of Commerce.

(3) VACANCIES- Any vacancy on the Board shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointment.

(b) ADVISORY COMMITTEES- The Board may establish advisory committees to advise the Board and to make recommendations to the Board concerning legislation, policies, administration, research, and other matters.

(c) INITIAL MEETING- Not later than 30 days after the date on which all members of the Board have been appointed, the Board shall hold its first meeting.

(d) MEETINGS- The Board shall meet at the call of the Chair.

(e) QUORUM- A majority of the members of the Board shall constitute a quorum, but a lesser number of members may hold hearings.

(f) CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR- The Board shall select a Chair and Vice Chair from among its members.

SEC. 5. DUTIES OF THE BOARD.

(a) PROMOTION OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- In order to assist in expanding the theoretical and practical knowledge of weather modification, the Board shall promote and fund research and development, studies, and investigations with respect to--

(1) improved forecast and decision-making technologies for weather modification operations, including tailored computer workstations and software and new observation systems with remote sensors; and

(2) assessments and evaluations of the efficacy of weather modification, both purposeful (including cloud-seeding operations) and inadvertent (including downwind effects and anthropogenic effects).

(b) FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE- Unless the use of the money is restricted or subject to any limitations provided by law, the Board shall use amounts in the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund--

(1) to pay its expenses in the administration of this Act, and

(2) to provide for research and development with respect to weather modifications by grants to, or contracts or cooperative arrangements, with public or private agencies.

(c) REPORT- The Board shall submit to the Secretary biennially a report on its findings and research results.

SEC. 6. POWERS OF THE BOARD.

(a) STUDIES, INVESTIGATIONS, AND HEARINGS- The Board may make any studies or investigations, obtain any information, and hold any hearings necessary or proper to administer or enforce this Act or any rules or orders issued under this Act.

(b) PERSONNEL- The Board may employ, as provided for in appropriations Acts, an Executive Director and other support staff necessary to perform duties and functions under this Act.

(c) COOPERATION WITH OTHER AGENCIES- The Board may cooperate with public or private agencies to promote the purposes of this Act.

(d) COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS- The Board may enter into cooperative agreements with the head of any department or agency of the United States, an appropriate official of any State or political subdivision of a State, or an appropriate official of any private or public agency or organization for conducting weather modification activities or cloud-seeding operations.

(e) CONDUCT AND CONTRACTS FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The Executive Director, with the approval of the Board, may conduct and may contract for research and development activities relating to the purposes of this section.

SEC. 7. COOPERATION WITH THE WEATHER MODIFICATION OPERATIONS AND RESEARCH BOARD.

The heads of the departments and agencies of the United States and the heads of any other public or private agencies and institutions that receive research funds from the United States shall, to the extent possible, give full support and cooperation to the Board and to initiate independent research and development programs that address weather modifications.

SEC. 8. FUNDING.

(a) IN GENERAL- There is established within the Treasury of the United States the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund, which shall consist of amounts appropriated pursuant to subsection (b) or received by the Board under subsection (c).

(b) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated to the Board for the purposes of carrying out the provisions of this Act $10,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2014. Any sums appropriated under this subsection shall remain available, without fiscal year limitation, until expended.

(c) GIFTS- The Board may accept, use, and dispose of gifts or donations of services or property.

SEC. 9. EFFECTIVE DATE.

This Act shall take effect on October 1, 2005.

 

[edward]

Thanks BobG

Thanks for the good read on the overall situation. I had been trying to find a link on when the flood walls failed.

If the Flood walls had broken in the middle of the night there would have been a lot more people trapped in their homes and/or drowned.

As for the assumption by some that the walls were breached so that the flooding would take place in the "poor" areas, the water would have ended up in the same low lying areas anyway. Water tends to do that.

 

[Smurf]

For those of you who'll want to know, S 517 text can be found here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-517
http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Weather_Modification_BillS517.htm
(both have the same text)

Oddly enough I can't find it on any official government sites (kind of predictable, they don't want this getting out)