The possibility of New Orleans disaster as psyops success

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BobG
Homework Helper
oldunion said:
Or the levee was blown to make it look like it was a result of the hurricane. Remember it broke the day after, not the day the hurricane hit.
Actually, the first levee broke about 2 hours after Katrina made landfall. ABC News first reported a levee broke about 3 hours later.

Unfortunately, communications was horrible. One of the side effects of the US's extensive cell phone and land line communication networks is satellite phones have never really taken off in the US (remember what happened to Iridium). Combined, the National Guard had one satellite phone for entire Gulf Coast (the Middle East relies much more on satellites for phone service, so virtually all of the National Guard's satellite phones were sent to Iraq). With land communication lines wiped out, there wasn't much in the way of communication. With no one in charge saying anything about the levee system, the story got dropped as rumor.

Even the Army Corps of Engineer's top official in New Orleans (Col Wagenaar) seemed unaware of the extent of damage to the levee system. Someone from the New Orleans police department had managed to tell the ACE about the levee break, but the ACE couldn't get anyone to the site to check it out. That evening, Wagenaar was the official who said, "The fact that Katrina didn't cause more damage is a testament to the structural integrity of the hurricane levee protection system."

The Washington Post has a good article on the buildup to the hurricane and immediately after the hurricane.

On the earlier point, yes the people were held there against their will. People don't usually scream to be let out when the door is open. That's why the few people who WERE allowed to leave were attacked (various things thrown at them) - they appeared to be getting preferrential treatment.

BobG said:
With land communication lines wiped out, there wasn't much in the way of communication.
An off-topic question: does the National Guard not have a radio communication system?

Yonoz said:
An off-topic question: does the National Guard not have a radio communication system?
Yes they do but in certain situations, and this is a prime example, the radio operator had better NOT start emergency radio traffic without proper approval. Proper approval doesn't always answer their cell phone especially when they see its work calling. Proper approval gets drunk sometimes. Proper approval often goes on vacation without leaving an alternate point of contact. Proper approval oftentimes is inept. Proper approval is usually a young Second Lieutenant fresh out of college and Officers Candidate School who is trying to "make it" and deathly afraid of making the wrong decision. In the recent past I've had many discussions with people on this subject and I have to say that without a doubt that anyone who is FRAKKIN IGNORANT ENOUGH to swim in a storm surge and place explosives should personally hold them in place until they're detonated. ANYONE who dives knows how much junk is in river water and knows the visibility is zilch. After a storm the water is much worse because now you have MANY MORE objects in it that can do you harm. Lets forget about all the creepy-crawly things that bite and sting, thats a given. What I'm specifically talking about is flotsam that you can't see that is just below the surface. It may come in the form of a waterlogged childs toy that harmlessly bumps you and goes on about its merry way or it can be the leading limb of a 50 foot tree that has all its limbs ground to points and is collecting soft objects on its tip, eg. FRAKKIN IGNORANT DIVERS!

russ_watters
Mentor
oldunion said:
Russ, there is an act to form a division in the government for developing weather control.
Dare I ask for a copy of the act?
HAARP manipulates the atmosphere...ive known about HAARP for years, i never connected it with weather though.
You haven't?! That's one of the classic conspiracy theories! It may well be the original internet conspiracy theory. You know about chemtrails, right...?
:uhh:
ive heard that it was done to flood the lower part of new orleans to protect the richer sectors- i dont know the engineering behind the levees but it doesnt make sense that water would flood one part of town and not the other.
Well, at least you're thinking a little - you still haven't turned the corner, though. oldunion, that site that you linked isn't so much a red flag as an explosion telling you that that you should ignore it.

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Pengwuino
Gold Member
Isn't HAARP a senior citizen organization :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

rachmaninoff
Just found this:

How You Can Help
Please do not send any items to the
White House intended for the victims
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hurricane/ [Broken]

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I am not connecting this act with what happened in new orleans. Make your own conclusions here, i dont include it in my theory of Katrina.

Weather Modification Research & Technology Act of 2005

September 2nd, 2005

(Introduced in Senate)

S 517 IS

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 517

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 3, 2005

Mrs. HUTCHISON introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation

A BILL

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. PURPOSE.

It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) BOARD- The term Board' means the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(2) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR- The term Executive Director' means the Executive Director of the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(3) RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The term research and development' means theoretical analysis, exploration, experimentation, and the extension of investigative findings and theories of scientific or technical nature into practical application for experimental and demonstration purposes, including the experimental production and testing of models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes.

(4) WEATHER MODIFICATION- The term `weather modification' means changing or controlling, or attempting to change or control, by artificial methods the natural development of atmospheric cloud forms or precipitation forms which occur in the troposphere.

SEC. 4. WEATHER MODIFICATION ADVISORY AND RESEARCH BOARD ESTABLISHED.

(a) IN GENERAL- There is established in the Department of Commerce the Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board.

(b) MEMBERSHIP-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Board shall consist of 11 members appointed by the Secretary of Commerce, of whom--

(A) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Meteorological Society;

(B) at least 1 shall be a representative of the American Society of Civil Engineers;

(C) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Academy of Sciences;

(D) at least 1 shall be a representative of the National Center for Atmospheric Research of the National Science Foundation;

(E) at least 2 shall be representatives of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of the Department of Commerce;

(F) at least 1 shall be a representative of institutions of higher education or research institutes; and

(G) at least 1 shall be a representative of a State that is currently supporting operational weather modification projects.

(2) TENURE- A member of the Board serves at the pleasure of the Secretary of Commerce.

(3) VACANCIES- Any vacancy on the Board shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointment.

(b) ADVISORY COMMITTEES- The Board may establish advisory committees to advise the Board and to make recommendations to the Board concerning legislation, policies, administration, research, and other matters.

(c) INITIAL MEETING- Not later than 30 days after the date on which all members of the Board have been appointed, the Board shall hold its first meeting.

(d) MEETINGS- The Board shall meet at the call of the Chair.

(e) QUORUM- A majority of the members of the Board shall constitute a quorum, but a lesser number of members may hold hearings.

(f) CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR- The Board shall select a Chair and Vice Chair from among its members.

SEC. 5. DUTIES OF THE BOARD.

(a) PROMOTION OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- In order to assist in expanding the theoretical and practical knowledge of weather modification, the Board shall promote and fund research and development, studies, and investigations with respect to--

(1) improved forecast and decision-making technologies for weather modification operations, including tailored computer workstations and software and new observation systems with remote sensors; and

(2) assessments and evaluations of the efficacy of weather modification, both purposeful (including cloud-seeding operations) and inadvertent (including downwind effects and anthropogenic effects).

(b) FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE- Unless the use of the money is restricted or subject to any limitations provided by law, the Board shall use amounts in the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund--

(1) to pay its expenses in the administration of this Act, and

(2) to provide for research and development with respect to weather modifications by grants to, or contracts or cooperative arrangements, with public or private agencies.

(c) REPORT- The Board shall submit to the Secretary biennially a report on its findings and research results.

SEC. 6. POWERS OF THE BOARD.

(a) STUDIES, INVESTIGATIONS, AND HEARINGS- The Board may make any studies or investigations, obtain any information, and hold any hearings necessary or proper to administer or enforce this Act or any rules or orders issued under this Act.

(b) PERSONNEL- The Board may employ, as provided for in appropriations Acts, an Executive Director and other support staff necessary to perform duties and functions under this Act.

(c) COOPERATION WITH OTHER AGENCIES- The Board may cooperate with public or private agencies to promote the purposes of this Act.

(d) COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS- The Board may enter into cooperative agreements with the head of any department or agency of the United States, an appropriate official of any State or political subdivision of a State, or an appropriate official of any private or public agency or organization for conducting weather modification activities or cloud-seeding operations.

(e) CONDUCT AND CONTRACTS FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The Executive Director, with the approval of the Board, may conduct and may contract for research and development activities relating to the purposes of this section.

SEC. 7. COOPERATION WITH THE WEATHER MODIFICATION OPERATIONS AND RESEARCH BOARD.

The heads of the departments and agencies of the United States and the heads of any other public or private agencies and institutions that receive research funds from the United States shall, to the extent possible, give full support and cooperation to the Board and to initiate independent research and development programs that address weather modifications.

SEC. 8. FUNDING.

(a) IN GENERAL- There is established within the Treasury of the United States the Weather Modification Research and Development Fund, which shall consist of amounts appropriated pursuant to subsection (b) or received by the Board under subsection (c).

(b) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated to the Board for the purposes of carrying out the provisions of this Act \$10,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2014. Any sums appropriated under this subsection shall remain available, without fiscal year limitation, until expended.

(c) GIFTS- The Board may accept, use, and dispose of gifts or donations of services or property.

SEC. 9. EFFECTIVE DATE.

This Act shall take effect on October 1, 2005.

Thanks BobG

Thanks for the good read on the overall situation. I had been trying to find a link on when the flood walls failed.

If the Flood walls had broken in the middle of the night there would have been a lot more people trapped in their homes and/or drowned.

As for the assumption by some that the walls were breached so that the flooding would take place in the "poor" areas, the water would have ended up in the same low lying areas anyway. Water tends to do that.

For those of you who'll want to know, S 517 text can be found here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-517
http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Weather_Modification_BillS517.htm [Broken]
(both have the same text)

Oddly enough I can't find it on any official government sites (kind of predictable, they don't want this getting out)

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The federal act came about because the states wanted it.

When Loren McIntyre, South American traveler and explorer, asked a Mayoruna Indian where the source of the Amazon River was located, the Indian pointed skyward to the clouds. Advocates of weather modification likewise look to the clouds as a source of water to augment current supplies.
http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/arroyo/061wthr.html

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edward said:
The federal act came about because the states wanted it.

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/arroyo/061wthr.html [Broken]
yes, but the uses of weather as a weapon is more appealing to american budget- im going to venture that guess. Theres no radiation, but destruction is incredible, not as bad as a nuclear detonation but if the destruction in new orleans was the size of great britain.....its a serious weapon indeed.

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Pengwuino
Gold Member
Smurf said:
Oddly enough I can't find it on any official government sites (kind of predictable, they don't want this getting out)
I'm finding it rather easily on all the usual congressional activities sites...

Pengwuino
Gold Member
rachmaninoff said:
Just found this:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hurricane/ [Broken]
How can you be confused?

Instead, please visit the USA Freedom Corps website at usafreedomcorps.gov for information on ways you can assist your fellow Americans in need during this time.
Do you think the White House has the means to have thousands of fedex boxes full of clothing coming into its mail rooms?

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russ_watters
Mentor
oldunion said:
Russ, there is an act to form a division in the government for developing weather control.
Ok, that's nice... so what?
HAARP manipulates the atmosphere...
No, HAARP does not manipulate the atmosphere.
doesnt anyone find it strange that there is an act, a legal group is trying to be formed for....weather control. this is not a sci fi movie, and i dont see any way to scrutinize that.
No, why would that be strange? If it's doable (people have mentioned cloud seeding), it seems like something that should be researched. What are you suggesting...?

Pengwuino said:
I'm finding it rather easily on all the usual congressional activities sites...
... Do share

Pengwuino
Gold Member
http://thomas.loc.gov/

I love that site.

And if your a God, wouldn't you have already known what site I went to!!!

Pengwuino said:
http://thomas.loc.gov/

I love that site.
That's odd, it wasn't there last time I checked

And if your a God, wouldn't you have already known what site I went to!!!
:grumpy: You bastard! You momentarily removed it from existance to try to make people lose belief in me! (that makes you the evil god)

Pengwuino
Gold Member
Smurf said:
That's odd, it wasn't there last time I checked

:grumpy: You bastard! You momentarily removed it from existance to try to make people lose belief in me! (that makes you the evil god)
ha, bow down to my power!!

However likely the fact that this may be a conspiracy, that wasnt my goal in this thread to prove it. I wanted to show that the government had such control over the situation that they could manipulate each factor for their goal-which is as yet unknown unless shearly for the purpose of gathering information on societal reactions in times of chaos. here is some information i found on another forum, its not etched-in-stone evidence but its something good.

Originally posted by Sinister Dick Cheney

Don't take Hal Turner's word for it just listen to the evacuees explain it:

Raw transcript of comments by NOLA evacuee : "The 17th street levee was bombed by the Army Corps of Engineers to save the more valuable real estate in the city... to keep the French Quarter protected, the ninth ward was sacrificed... people are afraid to speak out... everyone who was near there heard the bombings... they bombed seven times. That’s why they didn’t fix the levees... 20 feet of water. Gators. People dying in water. They let the parishes go, not the city center. Tourist trap was saved over human life. A six year old girl was raped in here.. 9 year old boy killed. A man in the shower beaten. No hot food. No help for elderly."

11:22 Now I’m speaking to someone else, another woman, who says some people report having witnessed "bomb sounds," believe 17th street levee and others were blown up to manage water flow and protect more valuable portions of real estate.

Evacuee: "They blew the levee to save the city..." Saying a barge broke the levee. She is from St. Bernard Parish. "More expensive places were saved at the expense of the neighborhoods that aren’t as valuable... Rebuilding Bourbon Street matters more to the government... that’s what mattered to Governor Blanco..."

Sunday, September 11, 2005

VIDEO: Earwitness tells ABC explosives blew Industrial Canal levee
Total411.info has obtained video of an ABC News report featuring an earwitness to explosives used to destroy the Industrial Canal in New Orleans. Here's the video, and here's the transcript:

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS: This is the actual levee that runs along the canal on the eastern side of the city. And when the hurricane hit, the water came through at such force, it was apparently too much. You can see the massive breach here, and when you look around the corner you can see what the water did to the Lower Ninth Ward. It compleetley destoryed neighborhoods.

JOE EDWARDS, JR., 9TH WARD RESIDENT: I heard something go BOOM!

MUIR: Joe Edwards rushed to get himself and as many neighbors as possible into his truck. They drove to this bridge, where they've been living ever since

EDWARDS: My house broke in half. My mother's house just disintegrated. It was a brick house. All the houses down there floated down the street like somebody's guiding 'em

MUIR: Was it solely the water that broke the levee, or was it the force of this barge that now sits where homes once did? Joe Edwards says neither. People are so bitter, so disenfranchised in this neighborhood, they actually think the city did it, blowing up the levee to save richer neighborhoods like the French Quarter.

MUIR: So you're convinced . . .

EDWARDS: I know this happened!

MUIR: . . . they broke the levee on purpose?

EDWARDS: They blew it!

MUIR: New Orleans' mayor says there's no credence to this.

NEW ORLEANS MAYOR RAY NAGIN: That storm was so powerful and it pushed so much water, there's no way anyone could have calculated what levee to dynamite to have the kind of impact to save the French Quarter.

MUIR: An LSU expert who looked at the video today says, while the barge may have caused it, it was most likely the sheer force of the water that brought the levee along the Lower Ninth Ward down.
--------------------------
(NOTE: It is not clear at all that blowing the Industrial Canal could have "saved" the Quarter, or that the Quarter was in danger at all.)

Originally posted by Zorglub

"There are a lot of lessons we want to learn out of this process in terms of what works," Cheney said.

"I think we are in fact on our way to getting on top of the whole Katrina exercise," he said, but added, "we've got a lot of work ahead of us obviously."

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new...082359_RTRUKOC_0_US-CHENEY.xml&archived=False

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oldunion said:
Sunday, September 11, 2005

VIDEO: Earwitness tells ABC explosives blew Industrial Canal levee
I don't think that too many people, even in the military, can tell the difference between the sound a claymore makes and the sound a transformer makes when it blows. ...bring it...
:zzz:

Amp1
This is almost to bad not to be planned.

I think it could be an experiment because of the execution of such poorly timed responses, the cutting og communication lines among true responders, the reprimands of military personel who gave aid, and this goes on and on. Why? There was a natural disaster there. The people need help! Why the obstructions to this aid?

http://www.counterpunch.com/mckinney09122005.html [Broken] (REP. C. McKinney)
http://www.counterpunch.com/glahn09122005.html [Broken]
http://www.counterpunch.com/selfa09092005.html [Broken]

All of that incompetence fairly screams that there could be an ulterior motive behind it.
And to any who would claim Counterpunch isn't credible ... thats a load of malarky, It's just a good source to get a synopsis of the available data. Funny thing is - the statements have been born out by facts from various sources.

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