The Principle of Invariant Light Speed

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the invariant speed of light as presented in the context of Special Relativity. Participants explore the reasons behind the constancy of light speed for different observers, including both physical and mathematical explanations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the invariant speed of light and seeks clarification on why it remains constant for all observers, regardless of their motion.
  • Another participant asserts that a person cannot move at the speed of light, emphasizing that the speed of light is a postulate of Special Relativity and is supported by empirical evidence.
  • Some participants note that the invariance of light speed was a stipulation made by Einstein, and while it is supported by experimental evidence, the underlying reason for its constancy is not fully understood.
  • One participant mentions that the constancy of light speed can be derived from symmetry considerations in space and time, referencing the Galilei and Poincare groups, but acknowledges that this is an approximation and that gravity complicates the picture.
  • Another participant suggests looking at a FAQ entry for additional insights on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the speed of light is invariant as a postulate of Special Relativity, but there is no consensus on why this is the case. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain regarding the underlying reasons for this invariance.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of space and time, as well as the unresolved nature of the fundamental reasons behind the constancy of light speed. The discussion also touches on the implications of gravity in more complex scenarios.

AbhiFromXtraZ
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While reading Special Theory of Relativity from Feynman Lectures, I fell into the confusion about invariant speed of light.
What I'm asking for is an explanation about this.
No matter whether physical explanation or mathematical.
So my question is Why the speed of light is same for a person at rest and for a person moving with the speed of light?
 
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First off, there is no such thing as a "person moving with the speed of light". You can, theoretically, move very close to the speed of light but you can't get there.

The universal speed limit, which light obeys because it is mass-less, is a postulate of Special Relativity and and empirically demonstrated fact.
 
Ok.. Forget about the value of speed of the person...
Can you now explain why the speed of light is INVARIANT of the motion of that person?
 
We don't know why the speed of light is invariant. It was postulated by Einstein when he developed Special and General Relativity and evidence supports the belief that it is invariant, but we don't know why this is so. Like many things in physics, it simply is.
 
AbhiFromXtraZ said:
Can you now explain why the speed of light is INVARIANT of the motion of that person?

Nobody knows "why" the speed of light is a constant in all inertial reference frames, it just is. It was a stipulation laid down by Einstein when he was developing SR that was based primarily on the constant value of the speed of light implied in Maxwell's equations. The constancy of the speed of light was also demonstrated experimentally by Michelson and Morley (M&M) 20 years prior to Einstein's development of SR, although Einstein had stated that he was unaware of the study at the time he wrote the seminal 1905 paper. See: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0393337685/?tag=pfamazon01-20

We simply accept the constancy of the sped of light as fact today because the models developed around that stipulation predict accurately experimental measurements.

Edit: Drakkith beat me to it. I wasn't trying to be redundant
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is one of the things you cannot explain. You can derive it, in a way, from simpler symmetry considerations about space and time: Assuming that space is Euclidean and time is homogeneous for any observer in an inertial frame, and that the principle of special relativity is valid, you'll find (up to trivial equivalence) two symmetry groups: the Galilei group and the Poincare group, implying the Galilei-Newton space time (a fiber bundle) and Einstein-Minkowski space time (a pseudo Euclidean affine manifold). Which structure describes nature best, is an empirical question, and as is well known nowadays, Einstein-Minkowski space time is the winner.

Even this is an approximation, however! When you need to take into account gravity, which is the case in astronomy and cosmology, then you must extend the description of space time to a pseudo-Riemannian manifold and use Einstein's General Relativity.
 
Ok.. Now I get it... Thanks to all..
 
You might also look at this entry in the FAQ section at the top of this forum:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=534862
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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