The total energy stored in a battery (theory/formula)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the total energy stored in a battery and the factors influencing its capacity and performance. It includes theoretical considerations, practical applications, and the complexities involved in measuring battery energy storage.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the total energy stored in a battery can be expressed as QV, where Q is charge and V is voltage.
  • Others emphasize that energy storage depends on various factors including battery chemistry, size, and type (primary/secondary), and recommend checking manufacturer datasheets for specific information.
  • A participant provides a detailed explanation of a Leclanché cell, discussing the chemical processes involved and the impact of internal resistance and current flow on the effective emf.
  • Concerns are raised about the predictability of energy output due to factors like electrode disintegration and chemical changes during operation.
  • One participant introduces an equation related to battery energy, seeking clarification on the variable 't' in the context of battery energy calculations.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the equation presented, noting that it is not commonly used to describe battery capacity.
  • A participant claims to have invented the equation in question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the factors that determine battery energy storage and the validity of the proposed equation. There is no consensus on the equation's application or the specifics of battery energy calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the actual energy capability of a battery is influenced not only by its inherent properties but also by usage conditions, making definitive answers challenging. The discussion reflects uncertainties about the relationship between battery chemistry and energy output.

feynman1
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What's the total energy stored in a battery that can be expended in a circuit until it's depleted?
 
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feynman1 said:
What's the total energy stored in a battery that can be expended in a circuit until it's depleted?
Check the datasheets at the manufacturer websites. The energy storage depends on the battery chemistry, size, primary/secondary type, etc.

https://data.energizer.com/
 
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May I suggest that you add a bit of context to your questions? This one is not easily answerable as it stands and maybe some further explanation might allow us to say something useful.

Berkeman has given the correct answer. I would add batteryuniversity.com

By way of explanation take for example a simple Leclanché cell. The energy in this comes from a zinc electrode. As the metallic zinc dissolves and becomes a solution of zinc ions (##Zn -> Zn^{2+} + 2e^- ## ) it causes an emf (about 1.5 V) between it and the carbon cathode.
Faraday's electrolysis law tells us how much electricity can be obtained from any given amount of zinc, but there are two (at least) problems. First, you can't predict exactly how much of the zinc electrode can dissolve before it disintegrates. Once part has broken off the main electrode, it can't contribute any current. Secondly, the 1.5 V emf is the ideal emf when no current is flowing. As soon as current flows, the available emf at the terminals is a bit less. There is internal resistance as the current moves through the electrodes. There are chemical changes, such as, changes in ion concentrations around the electrodes and formation of hydrogen gas at the carbon cathode, which alter the 1.5 V emf. These vary both with the current and over time.

So the actual energy capability of the battery is not determined solely by properties of the battery, but also by the way it is used. A battery may be able to supply more energy into a small intermittant load than into a large constant load. Most batteries lose energy even when not used, because some of the chemical processes may happen even when they are not supplying current. The rate of these wasteful reactions may vary with temperature at which it is stored.

Even if you know all the details of the battery and of your useage, the answer is still likely to be a statistical one.

So what is it that you actually need to know?
 
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Merlin3189 said:
May I suggest that you add a bit of context to your questions? This one is not easily answerable as it stands and maybe some further explanation might allow us to say something useful.

Berkeman has given the correct answer. I would add batteryuniversity.com

By way of explanation take for example a simple Leclanché cell. The energy in this comes from a zinc electrode. As the metallic zinc dissolves and becomes a solution of zinc ions (##Zn -> Zn^{2+} + 2e^- ## ) it causes an emf (about 1.5 V) between it and the carbon cathode.
Faraday's electrolysis law tells us how much electricity can be obtained from any given amount of zinc, but there are two (at least) problems. First, you can't predict exactly how much of the zinc electrode can dissolve before it disintegrates. Once part has broken off the main electrode, it can't contribute any current. Secondly, the 1.5 V emf is the ideal emf when no current is flowing. As soon as current flows, the available emf at the terminals is a bit less. There is internal resistance as the current moves through the electrodes. There are chemical changes, such as, changes in ion concentrations around the electrodes and formation of hydrogen gas at the carbon cathode, which alter the 1.5 V emf. These vary both with the current and over time.

So the actual energy capability of the battery is not determined solely by properties of the battery, but also by the way it is used. A battery may be able to supply more energy into a small intermittant load than into a large constant load. Most batteries lose energy even when not used, because some of the chemical processes may happen even when they are not supplying current. The rate of these wasteful reactions may vary with temperature at which it is stored.

Even if you know all the details of the battery and of your useage, the answer is still likely to be a statistical one.

So what is it that you actually need to know?
Thanks a lot. I want to know what determines the 't' in the battery energy emf^2/r*t.
 
feynman1 said:
Thanks a lot. I want to know what determines the 't' in the battery energy emf^2/r*t.
Battery capacity is determined by its chemistry. But where did you see that equation? As far as I know it is not used to describe battery capacity (but could be used for measurement).
 
russ_watters said:
Battery capacity is determined by its chemistry. But where did you see that equation? As far as I know it is not used to describe battery capacity (but could be used for measurement).
that's an equation i invented
 
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The OP question has been adequately answered. Thread closed.
 

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