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The Vibrations of Parapsychology

  1. Oct 17, 2003 #1
    Does ESP, telekinesis, pre-sight, ... exist?

    I understand that ESP is rejected by probably 90% of the posters here just because they don't accept is from a pure materialistic point of view.
    All depends however what is matter?
    Today physics confirms and most of use understand that matter and energy is vibration, oscillations. (Vibrations strings etc.)
    We know that radio works on tuned vibrations: resonance, transmitted by a medium. Radio exists.
    The same with mobile phones. We communicate wireless and even sent images to other mobile phones. That's normal. No question about that!
    Maybe two hundred years ago a time-traveler was burned because he used one but not today, the time traveller Nostradamus can use it now without problem. ;-)
    So ... all vibrations.
    These transmitting vibrations of radio, handy's, television, wireless internet-connections are provoked by 'material' products, by powerful hardware.
    The mechanism behind this all is that the receiving device must have a system inside that is resonant to frequencies sent by the sending device.
    As today's physics confirms that matter and energy is vibration, oscillations ... and humans also seems to be made of matter they can also transmit and receive vibrations ... if they are resonant to them.
    So we can says that like two tuned mobiles can communicate over serious distance also tuned people can communicate over serious distance (= telepathy). So some people can influence matter (=telekinesis). So maybe Voodoo is similar to the controlled pushing of a mobile-phone number which creates a terrible sound (ennoying ringing) in the machine of the correspondent.

    Now before shooting and debunking this I invite you to first read the two next 'warming up' posts on Hurkos and Uri Geller. Don't tell me that you had not the time to read them (but already want to react). Read them first or check the links.
    Appreciate your reactions ... even 'feelings'.
    But before, one small remark: Openness of mind. If you are inside a car but you don't 'believe in radio's' ... you will not turn or push the buttons to active your radio ... and you will never here music or news. And you will never believe that other people (instead using their car radio) can say: 'he Greg ... there is a traffic problem in 10 miles'.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2003
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 17, 2003 #2
    (2) On Hurkos

    About Hurkos : http://www.stephanyhurkos.com/peter_biography.htm .

    In 1956, Hurkos was brought to the United States by Andrija Puharich, MD (died 1994) to be tested at his Glen Cove, Maine medical research laboratory. For two-and-a-half years he was tested under tightly controlled conditions. The results convinced Dr. Puharich that Hurkos’ psychic abilities were far greater than any he had ever tested (before or thereafter) . . . a remarkable 90% accuracy.
    Hurkos’ forte was psychometry, the ability to see past-present-future associations by touching objects. "I see pictures in my mind like a television screen. When I touch something, I can then tell what I see." - said Peter Hurkos.
    He had been a consultant to every President of the United States from Eisenhower to Reagan. Hurkos received countless police badges from police chiefs around the world, including one from the International Police Association,and INTERPOL. His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, decorated Hurkos stating; "I hope you will always use your God-given Gift for the betterment of mankind. Use it as an instrument to touch the people, to help them."
  4. Oct 17, 2003 #3
    (3) On Uri Geller

    Uri Geller:
    (1): http://www.sirbacon.org/4membersonly/puharich.htm
    Puharich spoke to his colleagues on the subject of Extremely Low Frequency (E.L.F.) emissions. He believes that the relationship between electromagnetic force fields and healing could lead to novel scientific breakthroughs.
    Andrija Puharich: "An incredible but absolutely true scene took place when Uri Geller was working on one floor at Stanford Research Institute (SRI). They had Geller bending metal, teleporting things, demonstrating incidents of telepathy and clairvoyance-these things were happening all of the time. Well, unbeknownst to us at the time, there was another lab upstairs for ARPA-a computer network system. Somebody put two and two together and said: "Hey, there's a crazy kid downstairs who is bending metal and levitating things." So they cross-correlated and discovered that when Uri did something the computers would go wacko: program printouts would pop out - sometimes partly erased --- the power supply would go out on them and so on. "Somebody can affect the computer!" Panic ensued. A squad of colonels came out from Washington to sniff around and watch Uri do his thing. They came to me and said, "You know, our whole defense system is on computers and magnetic tape cards. Can this guy wipe them out? Would you cooperate?" So we took Geller to Bell Labs and to the Livermore Radiation Lab and they put together an elaborate set-up for magnetic shielding. They learned that he could wipe out anything on computer tape. They said to me, "This guy could start World War 3!"

    The SRI incident was witnessed by a lot of very credible people. Captain Edgar Mitchell, the APOLLO astronaut who walked on the moon, was the overseer of the project. Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff conducted the experiments. Also participating on the team were John Hastead of Berbeck College in England; David Bohm, the great theoretician of Quantum physics, and Nobel Laureate Brian Josephson. There were about 40 people on the team.
    .... I have a company called E.L.F.(Extremely Low Frequency) Cocoon Corp. I designed this very sensitive piece of equipment. It gives off an 8 Hz frequency. The watch was a ten-year project. I began to understand that there is a frequency vibration emitted by all these healers. So I developed some unique equipment that could measure this. When healers lay their hands, or energy, on someone, they put out exactly 8 Hz magnetic frequency-the same vibration emmited by crystals.

    (2) The website of Uri Geller: http://www.uri-geller.com/uri-biography/uribiog3.htm .

    Dr. Peter Fenwick. MB, BChir, DPM, FIRCPsych [ Dr. Fenwick is a senior lecturer at the institute of psychiatry, London, Consultant Neuropsychiatrist at John Radcliffe infirmary in Oxford, and Honorary consultant in Neurophysiology to Broadmoor Special Hospital. He has published numerous scientific papers on brain function and also several papers on meditation and altered states of consciousness. His most recent book is "The Truth of Light". Dr. Fenwick is also chairman of ths scientific and Medical network, a group of doctors and scientists seeking to deepen understanding in science and medicine by fostering intuitive as well as rational insights. ]:
    "I have spent my life in neuropsychiatry and have been interested in strange mental states and odd phenomena for a number of years. I first met Uri three years ago and was able to watch him bend a spoon on a colleagues's outstretched hand. I took a spoon from the table. Uri did not touch it, I put it on my colleagues's hand and asked Uri to bend it. Uri ran his finger above the spoon and stood back. Nothing happened. We expressed some dissapointment, still watching the spoon. He said, Wait and Watch. Slowly, as we watched, with Uri standing well away, the spoon started to curl in front of us, and within four minutes the tail of the spoon had risen up like a scorpions sting. I then took the spoon, the first time I had handled it since I put it there, and sure enough, it remained a normal spoon with a marked bend. "

    Dr Edgar D. Mitchell S.C.D. (Apollo 14 Astronaut and 6th man to walk on the moon):
    "I was in Scientific laboratories at Stanford Research Institute investigating a rather amazing individual Uri Geller. Uri's ability to perform amazing feats of mental wizardry is known the world over. We in Science are just now catching up and understanding what you can do with exercise and proper practise. Uri is Not a magician. He is using capabilities that we all have and can develop with exercise and practise." "After the Geller work, I was asked to brief the director of the CIA, Ambassador George Bush (Later to become President of the United States), on our activities and the results. In later years during the Brezhnev period, I met with several Russian scientists who not only had documented results similar to ours, but were actively using "psychic" techniques against the U.S. and its allies."

    http://www.skeptic.de/b/0177.htm on a book of Joe Nickwell:
    Psychic Sleuths is an in-depth look at those who supposedly use extraordinary powers to help solve crimes. Investigative writer Joe Nickell has put together a special "task force" of experienced researchers - professional magicians, private detectives, paranormal investigators and writers on pseudoscience - each of whom examined the claims of a famous psychic crimebuster and reported on him or her at chapter length. Featured are Gerard Croiset; Peter Hurkos ("The Man with the Radar Brain"), "superstar" Dorothy Allison; Noreen Renier, who "predicted" the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan; veteran psychic Bill Ward; Rosemarie Kerr; Phil Jordan; and Greta Alexander, who supposedly acquired her special abilities after being struck by lightning. An afterword by noted psychologist James E. Alcock offers an assessment of the psychics' claims in light of the investigative reports. Representing a unique approach, Psychic Sleuths carefully examines specific claims made by individual psychics and the methods they actually use to obtain information about a particular case. Entertaining, informative and thought-provoking, this critical study will appeal to all - believers and skeptics alike - with an interest in psychic claims and the paranormal.
    Joe Nickell , Ph.D., is a former stage magician and private investigator who as been featured in Discovery ,Omni magazine and Scientific American . He now teaches technical writing at the University of Kentucky, where he is Writing Program adjunct to the College of Engineering. Dr. Nickell's other books include Inquest on the Shroud of Turin ;Mysterious Realms: Probing Paranormal, Historical and Forensic Enigmas (with John F. Fischer); and Looking for a Miracle: Weeping Icons, Relics, Stigmata, Visions and Healing Cures .
  5. Oct 17, 2003 #4


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    The sight mentions many famous people who were impressed by Hurkos, but mentions nothing he did that was impressive. Famous people are just as susceptible to duping as anyone else.

    The amazing Randi duplicates pretty much every psychic trick in the book, then shows the mundane means behind them.

    Just a bit about Hurkos from this site http://www.theness.com/coldread.html

    Randi has published multiple books about Geller's fraud. Geller sued Randi, and wound up having to pay Randi's legal fees. Geller is actually a second rate magician and a con man.

  6. Oct 17, 2003 #5


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    Remote detection of mental processes is already possible. Interpretation of those signals might be possible some day. That such a capacity exists naturally in a human is about as likely as someone being born with x-ray vision or a built in Nintendo game cube.

  7. Oct 17, 2003 #6
    How would you know?
    A weak argument, based on your personal world view.

    Randi is called a scamm himself working for CIA as a desinfomation guy.
    In your opinion Randi is right (not assisting to experiments) and others assisting the experiments are wrong.
    Cheap argument.
    Try a better one. Why can mobiles phones communicate wireless ... and why humans can't do it?
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2003
  8. Oct 17, 2003 #7
    It's not that the site doesn't detail the achivements made by Hurkos. I remember an article in newspapers that he arrived in the USA in a murdercase and that he - after feeling the clothes - immediatelly pointed the spot where the body would be. On that spot they found the body.
    Why do you think he was awarded by Interpol and other police organizations? Because he was a scam?
  9. Oct 17, 2003 #8


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    Why if people could fool the police some criminals might not get caught!

  10. Oct 17, 2003 #9


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    Humans can. We talk, we hear, no wires are involved. Do people do it differently where you live?

  11. Oct 17, 2003 #10


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    I've got a better idea. You explain to me why someone would not be born with a fully functioning Nintendo game cube in their body. I have decided that it is possible. Anyone who says it isn't possible has a closed-minded world view.

  12. Oct 17, 2003 #11
    A number of criminal are never found. Hurkos had RESULTS, or in finding evidence, body or keys. Not dreams, or ideas ... but results. Because these results were REAL ... Hurkos was awarded by Police organizations.
    Why was he awarded ? ... not for his blue eyes ... but for the correct results. Reality.
    What probability? You can not count just the numbers during your lifetime. He just did it.
  13. Oct 17, 2003 #12
    Nice. ;-). Got me on the words.
    But you now what I mean. Telepathy. It's just the use of frequencies. If you are capable to tune you can get the message over i.e. 1000 miles.
  14. Oct 17, 2003 #13

    of course. I am born like that! What's special about that. Shall we play a telepathic Nintendo game?
  15. Oct 17, 2003 #14


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    Ok, I looked up Hurkos involvement in two famous serial killer cases, the boston strangler and John Collins. Hurkos supplied no useful information in either case. He picked the wrong guy entirely in the boston case, and gave out ridiculously contracting descriptions in the Collins case. It took me 5 minutes to find this info. Did you try at all to check the validity of any of this? Did you just obligingly swallow this tripe without ANY thought?

    Name one specific thing he ever accomplished. Be specific.

  16. Oct 17, 2003 #15


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    Wireless phones do not use telepathy. They use microwaves. The means is well understood. The mechanisms that perform the process can be pointed to. It is repeatable, reliable and can stand up to rigorous testing.

    No means for telepathy is identifiable. No mechanism to perform telepathy has been identified. It always fails rigorous testing.

  17. Oct 17, 2003 #16
    Do you have additional information on the Boston case?
    As far as I understand the Boston case he pointed another guy as being the murder. Not the one that was convicted.
  18. Oct 17, 2003 #17
    I understand how mobile phones work. I am just stating that paranormal systems also may work on identical systems, thus by tuned resonances.

    BTW ... I see Njorl - in my Telepathic Nintendo Cube - you don't wear your red jumpsuit! What happened?
  19. Oct 17, 2003 #18
    Are you sure the tests were made correct? You have some numbers on the tests performed and locations? Appreciate your information about where these tests where performed. Are your sure all results are published. Randi is to me not a reliable source. Thanks.

  20. Oct 18, 2003 #19


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    What is? The onus of proof is on the claimant.

    In these cases, we have a problem because failed studies are often not reported, at least not to any fanfare. This skews many statistics.

    If they work in the first place.

    Uh... hmm. Why do you think that? As had been mentioned by many previous posters, ESP (by which we mean some sort of sixth sense, not the philosophical conundrum of sensing without sensing) is very much in line with any materialistic system. In fact, finding additional mechanisms would in fact support materialism, but highlighting the imperfection of minds. I do not think there is any reason to talk of an ideological aversion to conventional ESP claims.

    The reason why ESP is rejected is that there are insufficient clear evidence to support it, an attitude of denial of skepticism amongst proponents, a wholesale lack of reproducibility, and a persuasive alternative psychological explanation to most cases.
  21. Oct 19, 2003 #20


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    The point about the Nintendo cube was a test to see if you were worth arguing with. Evidently, you will accept any claim, provided it is ridiculous. You are not capable of rational debate. There is no point in arguing with you.

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