Three Clear Questions on the Nature of Electromagnetic Radiation

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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around the nature of electromagnetic (EM) waves and their relationship to photons, exploring theoretical concepts, mathematical representations, and physical implications. The questions posed touch on the definitions and characteristics of EM waves, the connection between EM waves and photons, and the differences in intensity between linear and spherical wavefronts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is unphysical to describe "one EM wave" as an infinite mathematical line with defined E and B vectors, seeking clarity on whether this breaks any physical laws.
  • Another participant asserts that while the concept may be unphysical, it is consistent with Maxwell's equations and serves as a useful tool in solving EM problems.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between EM waves and photons, with one participant suggesting that a photon can be viewed as a single quantum of a plane wave field, while others question the implications of this analogy.
  • Participants explore the idea that a plane wave extends throughout 3D space, while a photon does not, raising questions about how to reconcile these differing characteristics.
  • One participant notes that spherical wavefronts do not simply arise from summing linear waves and mentions the inverse square law as a reason for the diminishing intensity of spherical waves.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the mathematical representation of EM waves and the conditions under which they can be considered valid solutions to Maxwell's equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the physicality of describing "one EM wave" and the relationship between EM waves and photons. While some agree on the mathematical consistency of certain representations, others challenge the implications and seek further clarification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the definitions of EM waves and photons, as well as the mathematical representations discussed. The relationship between plane waves and point sources is also not fully resolved, indicating potential scope restrictions in the analysis presented.

nonequilibrium
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Hello, this is a first year undergraduate student speaking, thanks for taking the time:

1) Is it unphysical (in a perfect realm, etc) to say "one EM wave"?
With which I mean: an infinite mathematical line with for each point an E and B-vector defined varying sinusoidally. In other words, would there be any physical laws I'm breaking by saying there's only "one wave"? (Is there a need of an infinite multiplicity to make sense?)

2) How do I relate an EM wave with a photon?
Obviously an EM wave is a mathematical idealization, correct? A photon is not periodical. Is "one EM wave" a continuum of an infinite amount of photons on one line? Am I far off? Is this is a crazy analogy? Is it acceptable? If the two are not connectable: is there a mathematical description of a photon; is it similar to that of a linear EM wave?

3) The (average) intensity (= average Poynting vector) of (one) linear wave is constant, that of a spherical wavefront is not.
This implies a spherical wavefront is not just a sum an infinite amount of linear waves originating from one point outward. Intuitively that is how I imagine it. Maybe that is because I'm secretly thinking about photons flying from a point source. If you want to describe the waves from a spherical point source, you have to start from scratch? Just like a plane wave is an infinite sum of linear waves, is a spherical wavefront a sum of something? What is one such element, if so?

I hope I was clear. I welcome all replies,
mr. vodka
 
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1) It is unphysical but it is consistent with Maxwell's equations. The infinite plane wave is a bread and butter tool of solving 3 dimensional EM problems.

2). A photon obeys Maxwell's equations. You can indeed launch a photon that is a single quantum of a planewave field. It would have a definit energy and momentum and no position.

3). Just as you can decompose a time varying wave into s sum of sinusoids in time, you can write an arbitrary wave in three D as a sum of planewaves going in various directions including imaginary directions. This is sometimes called k-space planewave decomposition or in physics this would constant-momentum planewave superposition.

But the simple reason for spherical waves diminishing is the inverse square law.
 
mr. vodka said:
1) Is it unphysical (in a perfect realm, etc) to say "one EM wave"?
With which I mean: an infinite mathematical line with for each point an E and B-vector defined varying sinusoidally. In other words, would there be any physical laws I'm breaking by saying there's only "one wave"? (Is there a need of an infinite multiplicity to make sense?)
It sounds to me like what you are describing is not a solution to Maxwell's equations. Antiphon thinks you are describing a sinusoidal plane wave:
[tex]A\;sin(k_xx-\omega t)[/tex]
But to me it sounds like you mean something more like:
[tex]A\;sin(k_xx-\omega t)\;\delta(y-y_0)\;\delta(z-z_0)[/tex]

Could you clarify? The former is a solution to Maxwells equations while the latter is not.
 
1) (to Antiphon and DaleSpam) Hm, indeed (in relation to DaleSpam's post), I meant only one line (say the x-axis) not having the E and B zero at all times (with line of propagation the positive x-axis). This is wrong in the mathematical-physical sense, then? You can only speak of a whole plane wave? That is, "one EM wave" is actually a plane wave, defined all over 3D space? But this is weird, when we fire one photon, we don't have E and B-vectors defined (related to that photon) all over 3D space, do we?

2) "a photon that is a single quantum of a planewave field" So if you have a plane wave propagating in the positive x-direction, then a photon can be seen as a "slice" of the whole plane-wave from x = a to x = b? (with a and b moving at the speed of light) But in relation to the previous question: a plane wave extends into infinite sideways (in the yz-direction), but a photon is not (we can only sense the photon if it strikes us, right? Not when it passes us). Is this not a problem?

3) Okay thank you. I suppose for this question (for now in my studies) I'll have to accept that if you start with the maxwell equations and demand you have a point-source and then solve it, you get a r²-dependence. That's all right, much like a spherical sound-wave. I just wanted to make sure I couldn't use my plane wave solution to somehow derive the intensity for a point source.

Thank you both.
 

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