Time derivative of an observable

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the time derivative of an observable in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on Ehrenfest's theorem and its derivation. Participants explore connections to classical mechanics and the application of quantum mechanical principles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant cites a formula for the time derivative of an observable and requests a derivation for it.
  • Another participant relates the formula to the classical Hamiltonian formulation, suggesting it is a translation of classical mechanics into quantum mechanics.
  • A different participant proposes using the product rule and Schrödinger's equation to derive the time derivative of an observable.
  • One participant identifies the formula as Ehrenfest's theorem, while another acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding notation.
  • A later reply notes the similarity between the time derivative of a Heisenberg operator and the discussed formula.
  • One participant references a specific paper from 2009 that provides a full derivation of Ehrenfest's theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relevance of Ehrenfest's theorem to the discussion, but there are differing views on the derivation and connections to classical mechanics. No consensus is reached on a single method of derivation.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the applicability of classical mechanics to quantum observables are present, but these are not fully explored or resolved in the discussion.

SoggyBottoms
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According to my book:

[tex]\frac{d}{dt} \langle Q \rangle = \frac{i}{\hbar} \langle [\hat{H}, \hat{Q}] \rangle + \langle \frac{\partial \hat{Q}}{\partial t} \rangle[/tex].

No derivation for this is given. How can derive you this?
 
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This is nothing else but the quantum mechanical translation (Poisson bracket of phase space function replaced by operator commutation relation) of the equation of motion in the Hamiltonian formulation of classical mechanics.
 
You can use the product rule for the derivative of <Q(t)>=<ψ(t)|*Q(t)*|ψ(t)> and then apply Schrödinger's equation two times.
 
oh, sorry, I missed the <.>; yes, it's Ehrenfest´s theorem, not the operator equation itself
 
To be fair, the equation for the time derivative of a Heisenberg operator looks pretty much exactly like that. lol.
 
The full derivation has been given in 2009 by 2 German guys. You can find it by searching arxiv.org for the name <Ehrenfest>.

8. arXiv:1003.3372 [pdf, ps, other]
Title: A sharp version of Ehrenfest's theorem for general self-adjoint operators
 
Thanks guys.
 

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