Trajectory of pendulum in frame of rotating disk under it

Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around analyzing the trajectory of a pendulum attached to a rotating disk, focusing on the mathematical modeling of its motion. The key equations derived include a second-order characteristic equation that leads to complex solutions, indicating the nature of the pendulum's motion in the rotating frame. There is confusion regarding the appearance of the imaginary unit in the characteristic equation, particularly when comparing it to the behavior of Foucault's pendulum. The participants debate the implications of the derived equations, particularly whether the pendulum's motion can be circular or if it results in a "flower" trajectory. The conversation emphasizes the need for clarity in mathematical assumptions and their physical interpretations.
PyHop
Messages
1
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Consider the pendulum depicted in the adjacent figure: a mass m
is attached to non stretching chord of length `. Directly below the
pendulum is a circular disc rotating with constant angular velocity
w. We attach to the disk a frame whose x-axis is in the plane of the
pendulum and the pendulum is in the extremal position to the right
at t = 0.

Compute the coordinates x and y of the pendulum in the rotating
frame as a function of t when the maximal angle of deflection qmax
is assumed small. And what curve does the motion of the pendulum correspond to in
the rotating frame if w = √(g/l). (Which is angular freq. of pendulum)Example of the situation (Starting from 0:49):

Homework Equations


[/B]
Same way as with Foucalt's pendulum, I've derived equation $$\ddot{u}+2ωi\dot{u}+Ω^{2}u=0$$
Where u is complex variable $$x+iy$$
ω is angular frequency of the disk and Ω of the pendulum
And the coordinate axes (x,y) in rotating plane is considered as complex plane here.

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
Solving characteristic equaton yields$$m^2 + 2ωim+Ω^2=0⇒m=-iω±√(i^2ω^2-Ω^2)$$

Now if this is solved for u, I get$$u=Ae^{-i(ω+√(Ω^2+ω^2))t}Be^{-i(ω-√(Ω^2+ω^2))t}$$

But then, if Ω = ω it seemingly should be that motion of pendulum in frame of rotating disk is circular. And if I plug that in the equation above, the trajectory seems to do same kind of "flower" as Foucalt's pendulum.

Then if the characteristic equation would instead yield $$⇒m=-iω±√(ω^2-Ω^2)$$ then the latter term would cancel out, and we would get (I suppose) circular motion of form:$$Ccos(√(g/l)t)+iDsin(√(g/l)t)$$

Which I have assumed what would be right answer. So what is problem with that 2. order characteristic equation, why doesn't imaginary unit's second power appear in the first terminside the square root? Or could that be right, and something else wrong here?

In example of Foucalt's pendulum, that equation was solved to form where there isn't 2. power of i in the first term inside sq. root, as in the term stayed positive, so that's why my first assumpton is that there's something I'm missing.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Then if the characteristic equation would instead yield...
... but does it yield that?
Which I have assumed what would be right answer...
On what basis are you making this assumption?
So what is problem with that 2. order characteristic equation, why doesn't imaginary unit's second power appear in the first term inside the square root?
... which 2nd order equation? (This is where it is useful to number your equations.)
Do you mean: ##m = -i\omega \pm \sqrt{\omega^2-\Omega^2}## ?
Then the answer is "I dunno" - you were the one who wrote it: why did you leave it out?
It looks like you left it out because you thought it would be nice to do so.

Your objection to just following the maths seems to be:
But then, if Ω = ω it seemingly should be that motion of pendulum in frame of rotating disk is circular. And if I plug that in the equation above, the trajectory seems to do same kind of "flower" as Foucalt's pendulum.
... since the pendulum should pass through the origin in both reference frames, circular motion is a problem, and I don't see how that somehow turns into the "flower" trajectory.
I'm guessing you have covered Foucault's pendulum in class, with a derivation. The approach here should be just about identical with F's P at a pole.
So what happens with that case that is different from this one?[FONT=PT Sans, san-serif]
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K