Transfer function of transmission line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the output voltage \( v_o(t) \) of a transmission line given an input signal \( v_{in}(t) \). Participants explore the transfer function of the transmission line, the effects of characteristic impedance, and the propagation delay of the signal through the line.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the transfer function of the transmission line as \( H(s) = \frac{V_o(s)}{V_{in}(s)} = e^{-j\gamma l} \), where \( \gamma = -j\omega\sqrt{LC} \), and discusses the relationship between \( V_o(j\omega) \) and \( V_{in}(j\omega) \).
  • Another participant questions whether the characteristic impedance \( Z_0 \) of the cable simplifies the problem, noting it is 50 ohms and suggesting there is no reflection.
  • Discussion arises about the output impedance of the voltage source, with one participant stating it is unknown, while another emphasizes its importance for understanding the waveform propagation.
  • Participants calculate the delay \( \tau = 10 \) ns based on the transmission line parameters, but there is uncertainty about how this delay affects the output when the transmitted wave reaches the load.
  • One participant challenges the calculated delay, suggesting that the propagation time for a 0.5 m cable should be less than 10 ns, leading to a discussion about the speed of signal propagation in the specific cable.
  • A later reply acknowledges the calculation of the delay but notes that the cable's propagation speed is slower than typical, leading to a conclusion that the output voltage at the load is a time-delayed version of the input voltage waveform.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the characteristic impedance and the propagation delay. While there is some agreement on the calculations presented, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact effects of these factors on the output voltage.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations related to the unknown output impedance of the voltage source and the assumptions made about the propagation speed in the transmission line. The discussion also reflects varying experiences with different types of transmission lines.

Bromio
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Homework Statement


Calculate the output vo(t) if the input is the signal vin(t) shown in attached figures.

The Attempt at a Solution


I've calculated that ransfer function transmission line: H(s) = Vo(s)/Vin(s) = exp(-j*gamma*l), where gamma = -j*omega*sqrt(LC). However, tau = sqrt(LC)*l, H(j*omega) = exp(-j*tau*omega), where tau is the delay.

I know that Vo(j*omega) = H(j*omega)*Vin(j*omega). How can I continue?

Thank you.
 

Attachments

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Bromio said:

Homework Statement


Calculate the output vo(t) if the input is the signal vin(t) shown in attached figures.

The Attempt at a Solution


I've calculated that ransfer function transmission line: H(s) = Vo(s)/Vin(s) = exp(-j*gamma*l), where gamma = -j*omega*sqrt(LC). However, tau = sqrt(LC)*l, H(j*omega) = exp(-j*tau*omega), where tau is the delay.

I know that Vo(j*omega) = H(j*omega)*Vin(j*omega). How can I continue?

Thank you.

I think this problem is a bit simpler than the approach you are taking.

What is the characteristic impedance Zo for this cable? Does that simplify things at all?

Are you given the source impedance for the signal source?
 
Zo = 50 ohm = RL. So, there is no reflection. However, I don't see how does this fact affect.
 
Bromio said:
Zo = 50 ohm = RL. So, there is no reflection. However, I don't see how does this fact affect.

You need the output impedance of the voltage source, but other than that, the waveform just propagates down the TL and shows up across the load resistor. How long does it take to propagate? What is its peak amplitude as it passes into the load?
 
berkeman said:
You need the output impedance of the voltage source

That information is unknown.

berkeman said:
the waveform just propagates down the TL and shows up across the load resistor. How long does it take to propagate? What is its peak amplitude as it passes into the load?

The delay is tau = 10 ns, but I don't know what happens when transmitted wave rises the load. How can I continue?

Thank you.
 
Bromio said:
The delay is tau = 10 ns, but I don't know what happens when transmitted wave rises the load.

What delay is 10ns? It takes a lot less than 10ns for the waveform to propagate down 0.5m of TL cable...
 
Why? tau = l*sqrt(LC) = 0.5*sqrt(10^(-6)*400^(-12)) = 10 ns.
 
Bromio said:
Why? tau = l*sqrt(LC) = 0.5*sqrt(10^(-6)*400^(-12)) = 10 ns.

Hmm, I guess you are right. It's just a slower cable than I usually work with. The speed of light in air is about 3ns per meter, so the velocity of propagation in this cable is 20ns per meter or only 0.15c. Usually I see closer to 0.5c (but I mostly work with twisted pair TLs), but whatever. I think your calculation is correct.

So, since you are given the voltage wavecform seen at the entry point of the cable (after the voltage source and its output resistance, presumably), you only need to worry about the propagation delay in getting through the cable to the load. So the voltage waveform at the load resistor is the time delayed version of the input voltage waveform.
 

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