Transmission of torque using friction

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    Friction Torque
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transmission of torque using friction, specifically comparing planar and spherical contact surfaces. Participants explore the derivation of torque expressions, the implications of pressure distribution, and the complexities introduced by spherical geometries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant derives a torque transmission formula for planar surfaces under constant pressure and expresses interest in extending this to spherical contact surfaces, questioning how to model normal pressure as a function of angular position.
  • Another participant suggests that a planar case with the same projected radius may always exhibit greater friction than a spherical one due to leverage differences.
  • Participants discuss the application of axial and radial forces in spherical contact, noting that the pressure distribution may differ from the planar case and that elastic deformation could complicate the analysis.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption of uniform pressure in the spherical case, with some arguing that additional assumptions or considerations of deformation are necessary for accurate calculations.
  • There is a suggestion to explore conical sections approaching a spherical shape as a potential method for analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the pressure distribution in spherical versus planar cases, with no consensus on whether the spherical case can be accurately modeled without additional assumptions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the comparative friction and torque between the two geometries.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unresolved nature of the pressure distribution in the spherical case, the dependence on assumptions about uniform pressure, and the complexities introduced by potential elastic deformation.

  • #31
Juanda said:
@Lnewqban This is my approach to the conical section. It's more of a combination of intuition and a leap of faith so let's see if it makes sense.

I first simplified the conical section to two flat angled surfaces.
View attachment 338068

Because it's static we can say:
$$\sum F_x = 0 \rightarrow F+2R\cos (\alpha)=0 \rightarrow R=\frac{-F}{2\cos(\alpha)}$$
We can see from that how the angle causes the reaction to be bigger in magnitude just as expected.
Isn't there a frictional force component of ## 2 \mu R \cos \theta ## missing from this force balance?
 
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  • #32
erobz said:
Isn't there a frictional force component of ## 2 \mu R \cos \theta ## missing from this force balance?
I think you're right. I should have added the frictional force tangent to the surfaces as well.
In that case, the expression I get is:
$$\sum F_x=0\rightarrow F+2R\cos(\alpha)+2\mu R\cos(\alpha+\frac{\pi}{2})=0\rightarrow F+2R(\cos(\alpha)-\mu\sin(\alpha))=0$$
$$R=\frac{-F}{2(\cos(\alpha)-\mu\sin(\alpha))}$$
Then, the normal stress to the surface would be again:
$$\sigma =\frac{R}{A}$$
If I tried to slide the block in the ##z## direction (in or out of the screen) while applying ##F##, then the opposing force would be ##\mu R## I believe.
 
  • #33
Please note that there are two regimes of friction: uniform pressure and uniform wear. At the beginning the pressure is uniform and wear is uneven. But, after the running-in phase, the wear becomes uniform and pressure adjustes unevenly. This is important in practice since there exists noticeable difference between the two situations.
 
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