Trying to understand isotropic vectors.

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    Isotropic Vectors
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of isotropic vectors, particularly in the context of complex vector spaces and their properties. Participants explore definitions, visualizations, and potential computational approaches to understanding isotropic vectors and their associated surfaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines an isotropic vector as one for which the dot product with itself equals zero, suggesting that this implies a certain surface in complex space.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the existence of isotropic vectors, noting that they could not find references to them in standard sources like Wikipedia.
  • A participant proposes a method to visualize isotropic vectors through a Java program that would allow manipulation of points in a 3D graph, questioning the feasibility and cost of learning Java.
  • There is mention of the parametrization of isotropic vectors in terms of complex coordinates, raising questions about the dimensionality of the surface they form.
  • Some participants suggest alternative software like Matlab or Mathematica for exploring the mathematical properties of isotropic vectors instead of Java.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the recognition and validity of isotropic vectors, with some expressing doubt about their existence and others attempting to define and explore them. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions and properties of isotropic vectors, as well as the mathematical steps involved in their exploration. The reliance on specific sources and the lack of consensus on terminology contribute to the complexity of the topic.

Spinnor
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From: http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/spinor.htm

"Let X=(x1, x2, x3) be an element of the vector space C^3. The dot product of X with itself, X·X, is (x1x1+x2x2+x3x3). Note that if x1=a+ib then x1·x1=x1^2=a2+b2 + i(2ab), rather that a2+b2, which is x1 times the conjugate of x1.

A vector X is said to be isotropic if X·X=0. Isotropic vectors could be said to be orthogonal to themselves, but that terminology causes mental distress."

also from the same web page:


"It is impossible to visual depict isotropic vectors and spinors because three dimensional complex vectors involve six dimensions and spinors as two dimensional complex vectors involve four dimensions."

I would like to see these isotropic vectors. Does this help or work?

For an isotropic vector,

X·X = x1x1+x2x2+x3x3 = 0, so,

x1x1+x2x2 = -x3x3 (This defines a surface in C^3? What are some of its symmetries?)


Let us plot the real parts of x1 and x2 on a 3D graph with z = 0, with a red point and at the same time plot the imaginary parts of x1 and x2 with a green point. These two points lead to two pairs of solutions to x1x1+x2x2 = -x3x3? Plot the solutions on the above graph's z axis coloring real and imaginary points as above. Imagine a java program that allowed us to move the red and green plot points in the z=0 plane and have it automatically calculate solutions to,

x1x1+x2x2 = -x3x3

such a program might allow us to investigate the complex surface X·X=0 ? Is Java hard to learn? Is it expensive?


Also from the same web page:

"It can be shown that the set of isotropic vectors in C^3 form a two dimensional surface. This two dimensional surface can be parametrized by two coordinates, z0 and z1 where

z0 = [(x1-ix2)/2]1/2
z1 = i[(x1+ix2)/2]1/2.

The complex two dimensional vector Z=(z0, z1) Cartan calls a spinor. "

Since z0 and z1 are complex does this surface need four numbers to label a point of this surface?

Thank you for any thoughts.
 
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Spinnor said:
From: http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/spinor.htm

I would like to see these isotropic vectors. Does this help or work?

Hi Spinnor! :smile:

I have never heard of isotropic vectors, and nor has wikipedia.

This guy Watkins (a specialist in mathematical economics … see http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/resume2.htm) seems to have invented them.

Spinors are a lot easier than that :rolleyes:

I suggest you forget isotropic vectors, and use some other website. :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Spinnor! :smile:

I have never heard of isotropic vectors, and nor has wikipedia.

This guy Watkins (a specialist in mathematical economics … see http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/resume2.htm) seems to have invented them.

Spinors are a lot easier than that :rolleyes:

I suggest you forget isotropic vectors, and use some other website. :smile:

Not yet %^)

Definition of Isotropic vector at

http://eom.springer.de/i/i052950.htm

and at

http://books.google.com/books?id=bS...i4vd8J&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8

Thank you for your reply!
 
Spinnor said:
Imagine a java program that allowed us to move the red and green plot points in the z=0 plane and have it automatically calculate solutions to,

x1x1+x2x2 = -x3x3

such a program might allow us to investigate the complex surface X·X=0 ? Is Java hard to learn? Is it expensive?

This sounds like a task more suited for something like Matlab or Maple or Mathematica, though something like Java or Python would also work.
 

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