Trying to understand the concept of divergence

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    Concept Divergence
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of divergence in vector fields, exploring its definition, implications, and mathematical representation. Participants engage with both theoretical and conceptual aspects of divergence, including its interpretation as a property of points in space and its relationship to sources and sinks in a field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Rafael Andreatta presents the definition of divergence from Wikipedia and questions whether it is a property of a point in space.
  • He inquires if a zero divergence at a point indicates that the point does not act as a source or sink for the field.
  • Rafael seeks clarification on whether the surface integral in the divergence definition refers to the entire surface or a micro-surface around the point of interest.
  • He notes that the unit of divergence appears to be area/volume (m-1) and asks if this has any significance.
  • Another participant provides an alternate expression for divergence in Cartesian coordinates, emphasizing that it is defined at any point where the partial derivatives exist.
  • A later reply clarifies that divergence is a property of the vector field itself, not just of a point, and confirms that zero divergence indicates no net flux per unit volume at that point.
  • This participant elaborates on the limiting process involved in calculating divergence and discusses the units of divergence in relation to the vector field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is some agreement on the interpretation of divergence as a measure of sources and sinks in a field. However, there is disagreement regarding whether divergence is solely a property of points or of the vector field as a whole. The discussion remains unresolved on several of Rafael's initial questions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of divergence's units and the nature of the surface integral in its definition. The discussion does not resolve these uncertainties.

Taturana
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\operatorname{div}\,\mathbf{F}(p) = <br /> \lim_{V \rightarrow \{p\}}<br /> \iint_{S(V)} {\mathbf{F}\cdot\mathbf{n} \over |V| } \; dS

This is the definition of divergence from wikipedia...

The divergence is property of a point in space. Is that right?

If the divergence is zero at a point, that means that such point does not contribute with the field as source nor a sink. Is that right?

So, the divergence of a point measures how that point contributes as a source or a sink with the field?

The surface integral in the equation above means a certain area, right? Is that area the area of the entire surface (like a gaussian surface in the gauss's law) or the area of the micro-surface that is "around" the point I'm measuring the divergence on?

Usually I like to think in the dimensions of the conceps (units). I noticed that the unit of divergence will always be area/volume (m^-1). Does that have any meaning?

If someone can help me with some of these questions I would be grateful...

Thank you,
Rafael Andreatta
 
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Nobody can help me?

Either I asked some very noob questions or very hard questions haha
 
There is an alternate way of expressing divergence (which is the one I am used to).

In Cartesian coordinates:
divF=∂F/∂x + ∂F/∂y + ∂F/∂z

This definition is for any point in space where the partials are defined.
 
Taturana said:
\operatorname{div}\,\mathbf{F}(p) = <br /> \lim_{V \rightarrow \{p\}}<br /> \iint_{S(V)} {\mathbf{F}\cdot\mathbf{n} \over |V| } \; dS

This is the definition of divergence from wikipedia..
It is, indeed.

The divergence is property of a point in space. Is that right?
No.
The divergence is a property of your vector field F.
If the divergence is zero at a point, that means that such point does not contribute with the field as source nor a sink. Is that right?
Indeed.
Then there is no net flux of F per unit volume centred about that point.
So, the divergence of a point measures how that point contributes as a source or a sink with the field?
Yes.
The surface integral in the equation above means a certain area, right? Is that area the area of the entire surface (like a gaussian surface in the gauss's law)

or the area of the micro-surface that is "around" the point I'm measuring the divergence on?
Your limiting process consists computing the net flux of F across the surrounding surfaces of ever-shrinking volumes V, giving you, in the limit of V to 0, the divergence of F at that point.
Usually I like to think in the dimensions of the conceps (units). I noticed that the unit of divergence will always be area/volume (m^-1). Does that have any meaning?

Units are: (area)*(unit of F)/volume.

If, for example, F is (velocity field of some fluid), then (area)*F gives the net amount of fluid flowing out of V; dividing with V gives you the volume flux per unit volume.
If someone can help me with some of these questions I would be grateful...

Thank you,
Rafael Andreatta

Ask more if you feel to.
 

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