Twin Paradox (3 objects version)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Twin Paradox involving three objects, A, B, and C, moving in relative motion along the x direction. Participants explore the implications of special relativity on time readings of clocks associated with these objects at different events, raising questions about simultaneity and the application of Lorentz transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that A's clock reading at Event 2 can be calculated using time dilation, suggesting t_A = 5/4t_B, leading to t_A = 6.25 when t_B = 5.
  • Others argue that A's clock reading at Event 3 can be derived similarly, with conflicting results depending on the approach taken, indicating a potential contradiction.
  • One participant notes that the question regarding A's clock at Event 2 is ill-posed, as it depends on the inertial frame used, which can yield different answers.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of accounting for the relativity of simultaneity in these calculations, suggesting that failure to do so leads to discrepancies in answers.
  • Some participants recommend using Lorentz transformations to analyze the problem from different inertial frames, while others express confusion about how to apply these concepts effectively.
  • There is mention of the utility of Minkowski diagrams for visualizing the events, although some participants express resistance to using diagrams in favor of mathematical equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the questions posed are complex and that different inertial frames yield different answers. However, there is no consensus on the correct approach to resolve the contradictions or on the specific readings of A's clock at the various events.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of simultaneity across different inertial frames, and unresolved mathematical steps in applying Lorentz transformations. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding and comfort with the mathematical tools required to analyze the problem.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of special relativity, particularly those grappling with concepts of time dilation, simultaneity, and the application of Lorentz transformations in multi-object scenarios.

  • #31
Sagittarius A-Star said:
Equation (1) would also be valid, if I had chosen the same event as origin for both frames.
Yes. This is in agreement with what I said. Just remove the ##\Delta##s from Equation (1) and you have the Lorentz transformation bewteen the two frames when they both have the same event as the origin.
 
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  • #32
PeterDonis said:
Just remove the ##\Delta##s from Equation (1) and you have the Lorentz transformation bewteen the two frames when they both have the same event as the origin.
Yes. If ##\Delta x## gets replaced by ##x## (and the same for y, z, t coordinates) , this means, that ##x_2 - x_1## gets replaced by ##x - 0##. This would be equivalent to defining the origin as one of the two events.

Source for Lorentz transformation of deltas and differentials (equations 7 and 8):
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article...nematics#Galilean_and_Lorentz_transformations
 
Last edited:
  • #33
Of course, Minkowski space is not only a Lorentzian vector space but an affine manifold with the translations as additional symmetry, i.e., the complete continuous symmetry group is the proper orthochronous Poincare group, including space-time translations.
 

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